The 'Trans' Issue.

[quilp]

11 minutes ago, Chie said:

The penis isn’t removed at all 🙂. It’s inverted to create the vaginal canal.

Well it's a "canal" of sorts but not a vagina in its true sense. Anorgasmic and often without sensation too, generally, and extremely vulnerable to a life-threatening infection, and requiring almost daily dilation.

All that in the pursuit of an idealised version of 'womanhood' which may solely be down to autogynephilic desire.

Man cannot be woman, can never 'feel' like a woman because he's never been, nor ever will be a woman, with or without his bits.

I say this without directing any malice to you personally, be as you want to be if it makes you feel complete. 

[HeliX]

17 minutes ago, quilp said:

All that in the pursuit of an idealised version of 'womanhood' which may solely be down to autogynephilic desire.

Usually it's in pursuit of wanting to feel "happy" in one's own skin in the only (probably) run at life an individual is going to get.

[The Voice of Reason]

38 minutes ago, Chie said:

The penis isn’t removed at all 🙂. It’s inverted to create the vaginal canal.

And what happens to the testicles in all this detransition process? Have they previously been frozen in case they may be needed again for a reversal? Or have  they been implanted  as super nipples?

You may get your penis back but you’d want the whole set back surely?

[quilp]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Usually it's in pursuit of wanting to feel "happy" in one's own skin in the only (probably) run at life an individual is going to get.

Man, I get all that and would not deny it to anyone. As I've said before, be all you want to be, straight up. My only objection, all along, has been the fervid experimentation with confused, dysphoric children. And the ensuing sense of entitlement which has developed along with the ideology. Oh, and keeping secrets from parents by invested teachers and the like. Something I believe you are all for, no? 

[Chie]

31 minutes ago, quilp said:

Man, I get all that and would not deny it to anyone. As I've said before, be all you want to be, straight up. My only objection, all along, has been the fervid experimentation with confused, dysphoric children. And the ensuing sense of entitlement which has developed along with the ideology. Oh, and keeping secrets from parents by invested teachers and the like. Something I believe you are all for, no? 

You say experimenting. But, is it? If you are talking about puberty blockers they have been around since the 80s and are generally used for kids with precocious puberty. They are pretty well understood and not particularly dangerous. If they were actually as dangerous as people claim, the recent "ban" would have included all children, including cis children, not just trans children. Given cis children still have access to, and are prescribed them, they can't be that dangerous as "more evidence would be required" across the board. And you can't say that it's a different situation for trans kids as trans kids and cis kids take blockers for much the same reasons. You can't even say that trans kids are on them longer, some kids start puberty as young as 5/6 and could be on the blockers for longer than some trans kids would be. Where's the danger then? Why aren't more studies required to understand the safety of blockers then? Outside of blockers, which are totally reversible btw, transition for a kid is nothing more than a name, pronoun and clothing change.

I was a trans kid myself, in a time where I didn't have the language to communicate it, as it wasn't really discussed. But I knew what I was, and I would have given anything to have the opportunity to transition earlier in life and gain access to blockers. People treat kids like they are idiots who dont know who they are, they do. And the evidence (literally hundreds of studies) ignored by the Crass report shows that gender affirming care in young people, improves their quality of life, mental health and reduces suicide rates among trans youth. A lot of my friends will tell you the same and the last reason any of us are doing this is "autogynephelia". If I wanted to get off on femininity, I would have just worn girl clothes and had a wank. I didn't.

Parents? Parents don't always want or know what is best for their child. The reason parents shouldn't be told is, what if the parent is abusive? Overly religious? A wing nut that believes only what GB News tells them is true and decides to uh "beat it out of them"? Buys into far right ideology? People who say this also generally say "safety of the child" and yet, don't actually care about the things that a child really should be protected from. And, in fact, are advocating for a child possibly being forced into an actual dangerous and abusive situation.

There is a superb level of entitlement that these types of parents have in regards to their child. They believe their child should exist to suit their own wants, needs and desires and be only what they want them to be. And any deviation from the perfect plan, the child is rejected and punished in X way.  A cold hard truth some parents need to learn is, your child doesn't owe you shit. Your child doesn't exist to suit you. Your child isn't on this earth to make you happy. So, rather than be an asshole towards them, try to earn their respect by listening to them, understanding them and learning why they feel he way they do and respecting it.

The biggest thing I find funny in all of this is....no. one actually talks to trans kids to find out how they ACTUALLY feel. Everyone instead seems to think they can dictate how they SHOULD feel. People need to talk to trans kids more and watch GBeebies less.

 

Edited May 3 by Chie

[quilp]

I take it you're childless. No matter what you may say, or whichever set of statistics you choose to present, I personally will not go along with what I consider a biological lie. Not ever. It's like the medical profession has suddenly rejected biology. The whole medical ethos has caved-in to unrelenting pressure from ideologues who have threatened and cajoled. 'First, Do No Harm' seems a distant, forgotten oath.

My last post in this thread, there is nothing to be discussed nor considered as far as I'm concerned. If you're happy and feel complete then honestly, I'm glad for you and respect your decision.

Amen.

[The Voice of Reason]

21 hours ago, Chie said:

 

There is a superb level of entitlement that these types of parents have in regards to their child. They believe their child should exist to suit their own wants, needs and desires and be only what they want them to be. And any deviation from the perfect plan, the child is rejected and punished in X way.  A cold hard truth some parents need to learn is, your child doesn't owe you shit. Your child doesn't exist to suit you. Your child isn't on this earth to make you happy. So, rather than be an asshole towards them, try to earn their respect by listening to them, understanding them and learning why they feel he way they do and respecting it.

 

Equally no child should believe that their parents exist to suit their own childish wants needs and desires and  children should also believe their parents don’t owe them shit. Your parents are not on this earth to make you happy. They are there to bring you up to be responsible people.

Yes if either of my children had told me they wanted to “ transition “ I would have urged caution and asked them to really consider it. It’s a whole different ball game,  for example than them coming out as gay. ( and this is why I have a problem with the transsexual movement piggy backing on the hard fought rights of the gay community)

That said if either of my children said they were trans, I wouldn’t reject or “ punish” them in the way you suggest. I’d still love them.

So equally children, earn the respect of your parents don’t be assholes towards them, learn the way they feel the way they do. It’s a two way street.

 

Edited May 4 by The Voice of Reason

[The Old Git]

Saw this on twitter earlier and one persons reply lead me to their writing on the dextrans subject. Didn’t read too much though. Sounds horrible 

https://tullipr.substack.com/archive?sort=new

[RecklessAbandon]

On 5/4/2024 at 12:16 AM, quilp said:

I take it you're childless. No matter what you may say, or whichever set of statistics you choose to present, I personally will not go along with what I consider a biological lie. Not ever. It's like the medical profession has suddenly rejected biology. The whole medical ethos has caved-in to unrelenting pressure from ideologues who have threatened and cajoled. 'First, Do No Harm' seems a distant, forgotten oath.

Ah the good old, "I believe" school of medical certification.

"First, Do No Harm" does not mean, don't help people because it interferes with my beliefs.

[RecklessAbandon]

On 5/4/2024 at 12:16 AM, quilp said:

My last post in this thread, there is nothing to be discussed nor considered as far as I'm concerned. If you're happy and feel complete then honestly, I'm glad for you and respect your decision.

A thinly veiled "I don't agree with your existence but I can't say the quiet bit out loud"

[Max Power]

On 5/3/2024 at 11:38 PM, Chie said:

There is a superb level of entitlement that these types of parents have in regards to their child. They believe their child should exist to suit their own wants, needs and desires and be only what they want them to be. And any deviation from the perfect plan, the child is rejected and punished in X way.  A cold hard truth some parents need to learn is, your child doesn't owe you shit. Your child doesn't exist to suit you. Your child isn't on this earth to make you happy. So, rather than be an asshole towards them, try to earn their respect by listening to them, understanding them and learning why they feel he way they do and respecting it.

The biggest thing I find funny in all of this is....no. one actually talks to trans kids to find out how they ACTUALLY feel. Everyone instead seems to think they can dictate how they SHOULD feel. People need to talk to trans kids more and watch GBeebies less.

 

I wouldn't dream of criticising any adult who wishes to transition, I have friends who have done so but I really don't know if they are truly happy or not.

A parents responsibility is to protect their children from anything which may harm them, particularly during childhood. They also must advise them of the likely pitfalls of any action they may see their children about to embark on. That is part of parenting and growing up. It's not a sense of entitlement, it's trying to keep your child from doing something which they may later regret. 

Children like a lot of things which may not be good for them, it's probably best that they are given time to develop before trying to change their bodies so that they can take all of the pros and cons into account. 

  

[Anyone]

I think it’s best not to have an opinion on this as it’s a lose lose option. People are people so let them be what they want to be. 

[The Voice of Reason]

On 5/7/2024 at 5:39 PM, The Old Git said:

Saw this on twitter earlier and one persons reply lead me to their writing on the dextrans subject. Didn’t read too much though. Sounds horrible 

https://tullipr.substack.com/archive?sort=new

Sounds very horrible.

What stands out for me is that having  cannabalised (sp) their  own body, seemingly for no sound medical ( eg live saving) reason and suffering terrible constant pain for a tad less than five months,  this individual seems to be most concerned about their inability to achieve an orgasm.

If that were me suffering all that “ brutal”  pain that would be the least of my worries.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 minute ago, Anyone said:

I think it’s best not to have an opinion on this as it’s a lose lose option. People are people so let them be what they want to be. 

That’s just your opinion.

[Chie]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:27 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

Equally no child should believe that their parents exist to suit their own childish wants needs and desires and  children should also believe their parents don’t owe them shit. Your parents are not on this earth to make you happy. They are there to bring you up to be responsible people.

Yes if either of my children had told me they wanted to “ transition “ I would have urged caution and asked them to really consider it. It’s a whole different ball game,  for example than them coming out as gay. ( and this is why I have a problem with the transsexual movement piggy backing on the hard fought rights of the gay community)

That said if either of my children said they were trans, I wouldn’t reject or “ punish” them in the way you suggest. I’d still love them.

So equally children, earn the respect of your parents don’t be assholes towards them, learn the way they feel the way they do. It’s a two way street.

 

If you are a good parent, the child owes you respect. However, you owe the child respect and love regardless. You brought them into the world, whether accidental or intentional, you owe a responsibility to the child to provide it with love, understanding and care. That doesn’t mean you have to put up with the child misbehaving, not at all. Some parents don’t see it like that and think their child exists purely to suit them, their wants, their needs. That’s what I meant when I said your child doesn’t owe you shit, you may have wants, but you also have to accept that those wants may be largely ignored in favour of a more preferred path.

Now, all children need guidance and sometimes kids like things that are bad for them, as you said. There’s a difference tho between “I want to explore my gender” vs something like “I like eating loads of chocolate” or “I like playing football in the road”. Social transition, for example, in children, is literally clothes, a name and pronouns. Then, if they want to, puberty blockers. Which we have already established are pretty safe as, if they weren’t, they would be banned for cis kids also, they aren’t, and are easily reversible, and there’s plenty of studies out there showing as much.

Can we move the haters onto the next thing already, this debate is getting old.