Rushen Spy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 31 minutes ago, John Wright said: There’s no parallel. Not even sure it’s an analogy. It's a fairly loose one but I think clear enough to make the point that "inclusion" and "diversity" ought to include and be diverse enough to include religious and philosophical beliefs even if we find them ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I don't think he should lose his job. regards the Bible, then this IMO, has been rewrote that many times, that the translations have become so messed about and interpreted differently, that they've become mixed up. For instance in Genesis, it starts off with saying 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. The Old Testament Hebrew states 'Elohim' or Gods, thereby plural. So goodness knows which God people are following and its a pity that the Book of Enoch was removed as this would really put the cat amongst the pigeons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, Rushen Spy said: It's a fairly loose one but I think clear enough to make the point that "inclusion" and "diversity" ought to include and be diverse enough to include religious and philosophical beliefs even if we find them ridiculous. You’re completely missing the point. Israel can believe and think what he wants, he can go to church. He can say what he wants in private. His employer will respect him and not think anything about his beliefs or do anything about them. His diversity is valued, encouraged and he’s included. BUT if he says something publicly that attacks the inclusivity and diversity he crosses a line. He’s saying he doesn’t believe in his employers inclusion and diversity stance. He’s given a second chance and crosses it again, step too far. Your gay “parallel” is just the same. It’s not wrong or dismissible, to be gay, flamboyant, to go to gay bars and clubs. BUT, organise on on line campaign against his employer on the homophobia grounds and his job is, legitimately on the line, at lest after a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 In a word - no. Nothing to do with religion but everything to do with what a lot, probably the majority of people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushen Spy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, manxy said: The Old Testament Hebrew states 'Elohim' or Gods, thereby plural. That is nonsense. It may be structurally plural (-im) but that relates to the realms, spheres or worlds over which the deity is lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Chinahand said: Should you lose your job for saying: "drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters" should "repent" because "only Jesus saves" The Christian bible IS explicitly homophobic, it also approves of slavery. What should believers in it do ... keep quiet ... or should society be tolerant of their beliefs? Is it ok to be fired for communicating what the Christian bible explicitly says? Yes. The greatest story ever told, was maybe one of the best ever movies. But there it ends. People need to get away from all this jesus stuff. it is 2019 FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Rushen Spy said: That is nonsense. It may be structurally plural (-im) but that relates to the realms, spheres or worlds over which the deity is lord. Couldn't say RS, but understand that with Judaism, Hebrew tradition did not begin as monotheism as it was reported as being developed over time, so thats why I mentioned Gods instead of a singular God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, manxy said: Couldn't say RS, but understand that with Judaism, Hebrew tradition did not begin as monotheism as it was reported as being developed over time, so thats why I mentioned Gods instead of a singular God. There are NO gods. get a grip. We have left the stoneage.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Who knows and can't answer that Dili. Maybe you're a God and I haven't recognised it before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 minute ago, manxy said: Who knows and can't answer that Dili. Maybe you're a God and I haven't recognised it before? There are NO gods at all ever. It is all bollocks. So sad that people still push this shite, even though we live in an enlightened era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 5 hours ago, John Wright said: You’re completely missing the point. Israel can believe and think what he wants, he can go to church. He can say what he wants in private. His employer will respect him and not think anything about his beliefs or do anything about them. His diversity is valued, encouraged and he’s included. BUT if he says something publicly that attacks the inclusivity and diversity he crosses a line. He’s saying he doesn’t believe in his employers inclusion and diversity stance. He’s given a second chance and crosses it again, step too far. Your gay “parallel” is just the same. It’s not wrong or dismissible, to be gay, flamboyant, to go to gay bars and clubs. BUT, organise on on line campaign against his employer on the homophobia grounds and his job is, legitimately on the line, at lest after a warning. Hmmmm, On a normal day I would probably take that stance and agree with both you and ID's employers. But lets take this a bit further, "Israel, we know what you think and believe, we know that you truly believe this in your heart, your soul, your moral beliefs, your family upbringing etc. etc. We knew when we employed you that you came from a deeply religious background that considered all these activities to be 'sins'. But we were / are prepared to turn a blind eye to all of your true beliefs, make you a world sports superstar, make money for you, make money out of you. We were prepared to set aside all company 'moral attitudes' for as long as nobody found out. But for this to happen, we needed your collusion, you had to be prepared to collude with us to pretend that your moral beliefs, held from birth, did not exist. We will do all of this in the full knowledge of what your true beliefs actually are - but as long as you cover up your true beliefs, we can make money together - just as long as you never, ever, state your true beliefs in public. We warned you that we could only continue to make money for and out of you for as long as you were prepared to deceive the public by hiding your true religious beliefs. You know your true beliefs, we know (knew) your true beliefs, but they must remain secret for commercial reasons. If you do however state your moral (religious) beliefs in public - then our company moral values (slightly different from the ones we used when we employed you) will mean that we have to stop making money for you, stop making money out of you, and decry your moral beliefs to the public as if we had never known about them in the first place - because we are after all, a primarily moral organisation. So, Company Policy on Morality; 'As long as you are prepared to collude with the company in keeping your moral or religious beliefs to yourself, your beliefs and diversity are valued, encouraged, and you are included. (By 'included' we mean that we will each make shedloads) BUT, if those same beliefs are ever made public (God forbid we are both found out) then we will no longer be in a money making enterprise with you and will pretend that we never knew about your beliefs (disgusting as they now are) in the first place. ' Hmmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, dilligaf said: There are NO gods at all ever. It is all bollocks. So sad that people still push this shite, even though we live in an enlightened era It's True - There is a God (Apologies to the US Demoncratic Party) https://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 minute ago, manxy said: It's True - There is a God (Apologies to the US Demoncratic Party) https://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushen Spy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 hours ago, manxy said: Couldn't say RS, but understand that with Judaism, Hebrew tradition did not begin as monotheism as it was reported as being developed over time, so thats why I mentioned Gods instead of a singular God. Sorry, but the claim you just made (repeated) is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rushen Spy said: Sorry, but the claim you just made (repeated) is false. It may well be as its something I know nothing about and only came across it by chance. Are you able to substantiate your claim and from what source? Not too bothered if you can or can't, but some might find your info interesting. Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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