Horse trams on the wrong track

[SJR]

6 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Only because government ‘forgot’ to tell them that there would be no horse trams this year as the prom was up and they took bookings and now we as taxpayer have to incur all the costs and delays and hassle of making sure they can run for a few hundred feet as government yet again totally fucked up on the basics. It would have been easier, cheaper, and more productive to just give the tour company £50 a head as a refund for the fact that there will be no horse trams and do the job properly without having to put this interim solution together rather than all this pathetic waste and hassle so that a few train weirdos can travel less than 1/4 of a mile over a broken promenade. The fact is Longworth always puts the needs of his train weirdo mates over everything including common sense. 

 

[SJR]

Or perhaps get the bus Walk or cycle to work.There is a whole new Department in Government don't you know that probably costs more than the Horse Trams and Manx Radio that is working on a walking route from Onchan to downtown Douglas...Only on the Isle Of Man...

[SJR]

Not been near the beer tent.Gosh you are inventive..Perhaps you do not want to know.

[On The Bus]

SJR don't take this the wrong way, but you come across as an absolutely pathetic cunt! 

The 'fact' that one fireman got a pension payout of £1m isn't mutually exclusive from the fact that the horse trams are an absolute waste of money. Just because somebody told you that thousands of people come here to ride on them doesn't make it true. 

[Roger Mexico]

33 minutes ago, SJR said:

It does not cost £300k.

You're right, it's more than that.  According to an FoI request last year by Manx Radio:

Quote

Running the horse trams along Douglas promenade cost the Isle of Man Government just shy of half a million pounds last summer.

Revenue generated by the heritage tramway was £143,000 but running costs were £626,000.

Now if you look at the actual FoI request, which has more details:

Quote

The revenue generated was £142,703. This includes a proportion of takings from Explorer tickets. This proportion is the same as that previously paid to Douglas Borough Council when the Douglas Bay Horse Tramway was under their ownership.

The running costs were £626,002. These costs are comprised of capital expenditure (the purchase of assets, fixtures and fittings and comestibles from Douglas Borough Council, horse tram refurbishment), revenue expenditure (rent and payroll), and other expenditure (purchase of horses and purchase of other equipment necessary to operate the horse tramway). Figure also includes out of season running costs

So it's clear that the DoI doesn't even know what 'running costs' means[1] or has no intention of controlling its costs.

As I said in an earlier comment the actual operating loss on the horse trams may be quite low by DoI standards.  Back in 2016, Harmer claimed in a Tynwald Answer that it was only expected to be £60,000 for 2017, rather than the £ 483,000 implied above.  They seem to make it us as they go along, possibly trying to con themselves as much as the rest of us.  But the real financial burden arises from their keenness on using the heritage transport as an excuse for extra capital spending.

 

[1] Hint: it doesn't include capital one-offs, but then 'comestibles' (presumably for the horses) shouldn't count as capital.

[Non-Believer]

Let's not forget the good Mr Gawne's assurances that the DOI could run the horsetrams at much less of a loss (can't remember the exact figures), when they took them off the hands of DBC who were on the cusp of binning them on the grounds of the losses incurred.

[On The Bus]

The money being spent on horse trams will ultimately be squandered. It's only a matter of time until animal rights activists turn their attention to it. They'll make easy work of publicising horses being made the drag a 5 ton tram up and down a busy roadway in among cars, bikes and lorries, all while breathing in the fumes for 6 months of the year.

Close it now and do the taxpayers and the horses a favour. 

[thesultanofsheight]

11 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Let's not forget the good Mr Gawne's assurances that the DOI could run the horsetrams at much less of a loss (can't remember the exact figures), when they took them off the hands of DBC who were on the cusp of binning them on the grounds of the losses incurred.

Well Gawne was pretty much like Harmer is now. The DOI is pretty much an embarrassment and he like Harmer just stood there doing nothing while a whole rake of stupid and damaging and expensive projects were kicked off. Ironically resulting in him getting booted himself because of the huge amount of money spent tarmacking the road outside his own house. Harmer will end in the same way as the prom is already an embarrassment and it will still be a mess which voters will remember when we go to the polls again in a few years time. That dept is the complete kiss of death for any Minister. 

[Neil Down]

Just now, thesultanofsheight said:

Well Gawne was pretty much like Harmer is now. The DOI is pretty much an embarrassment and he like Harmer just stood there doing nothing while a whole rake of stupid and damaging and expensive projects were kicked off. Ironically resulting in him getting booted himself because of the huge amount of money spent tarmacking the road outside his own house. Harmer will end in the same way as the prom is already an embarrassment and it will still be a mess which voters will remember when we go to the polls again in a few years time. That dept is the complete kiss of death for any Minister. 

Not one Civil Servant held accountable either. Quite remarkable.

[thesultanofsheight]

4 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Not one Civil Servant held accountable either. Quite remarkable.

I doubt any of them are of a mental age to be held accountable. 

[Gizo]

2 hours ago, SJR said:

Too many clowns on this forum.I think you will find (and I am no great fan of Mr Longworth) that thousands (yes you read it here first) of packages for Great Railways Journeys of the World have been sold most of which are for early season tourists.They include a horse tram ride and those horses are raring to go unless of course you want them shot.Of course most of you gobshites would not have got out of bed early enough to see the diverse number of tourists filling up hotel rooms and generally promoting the Island.Incidentally the cost of the horse trams running for a whole season is less than a quarter of an Airport firemans retirement lump sum or the total cost of a school cleaners pension.Reign it in and look at the bigger picture..

 

He’s fkn right you know, Dobby is raring to go for that inclusive tram ride on the once in a lifetime holiday. We better #savedobby and #the trams now.

 

 

[Non-Believer]

59 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Not one Civil Servant held accountable either. Quite remarkable.

They can't sack them, costs too much and would make a nasty bump in the unemployment figures (if applied pan Govt).

So they all need to be kept busy. And it's done by letting them dream up one project after another, even if it means ripping up temporary and extending during the process and remarkably even during a period of fiscal stricture, we seem to be able to keep finding the money to do it somehow; which leads to... still waiting for clarification on the rumours of the re-established VAT take from UK too.

[dilligaf]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Let's not forget the good Mr Gawne's assurances that the DOI could run the horsetrams at much less of a loss (can't remember the exact figures), when they took them off the hands of DBC who were on the cusp of binning them on the grounds of the losses incurred.

No they were not !

[Non-Believer]

2 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

No they were not !

Er, I think you'll find they were, Dilli. Losses of £250k+ a year to the ratepayers were stated IIRC and they were to be operationally ceased.

That's what kicked the original furore off and DOI stepped in and took them over. Gawne claimed DOI could run them a lot cheaper which proved to be the usual Gawne bullplop.

[Rog]

7 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Er, I think you'll find they were, Dilli. Losses of £250k+ a year to the ratepayers were stated IIRC and they were to be operationally ceased.

That's what kicked the original furore off and DOI stepped in and took them over. Gawne claimed DOI could run them a lot cheaper which proved to be the usual Gawne bullplop.

Gawne was and remains a fool.  The amount of money that he is responsible for totally wasting is incredible.