Thomas Cook Collapse

[doc.fixit]

GD4ELI .the point both dreamon and I were both making was his use of the word, 'suspended'.

I have previously indicated that I have already applied to the CC as outlined by the good folk of MF, we were merely saying that it doesn't help our cause and something positive might actually help!

I do hope this thread doesn't descend to the depths of nit picking that other threads seem to do.

 

[stayingover]

Did you get refunded Doc? I’m only asking as Freedom Travel advised claiming through ABTA which I did several weeks ago. Heard nothing and then an email a couple of days ago basically fobbing me off and stating I should claim via the bank as a chargeback as I paid in full by debit card!! They seem to have sent me a generic email and nothing specific to my personal claim.  Have been to my bank this afternoon who spoke to Visa Disputes while I was there who basically said that they needed correspondence from ABTA that was ‘personalised’ As to why they are not dealing with it, however said that a ‘chargeback’ was extremely unlikely to be successful!!

 

As such I am at a bit of a loss as to next steps. It pisses me off that Freedom can carry on touting their business as if nothing happened, and the really annoying part is that their website did, and still does, state that money is safe and protected. 

All suggestions are welcomed. Would I be as well going down the small claims route?

many thanks

[woolley]

24 minutes ago, stayingover said:

Did you get refunded Doc? I’m only asking as Freedom Travel advised claiming through ABTA which I did several weeks ago. Heard nothing and then an email a couple of days ago basically fobbing me off and stating I should claim via the bank as a chargeback as I paid in full by debit card!! They seem to have sent me a generic email and nothing specific to my personal claim.  Have been to my bank this afternoon who spoke to Visa Disputes while I was there who basically said that they needed correspondence from ABTA that was ‘personalised’ As to why they are not dealing with it, however said that a ‘chargeback’ was extremely unlikely to be successful!!

 

As such I am at a bit of a loss as to next steps. It pisses me off that Freedom can carry on touting their business as if nothing happened, and the really annoying part is that their website did, and still does, state that money is safe and protected. 

All suggestions are welcomed. Would I be as well going down the small claims route?

many thanks

I'd certainly give it some publicity through local newspapers, radio and social media and kick up a very big stink. If they are serious about staying in business they are not going to want that smell hanging around, and even if they themselves are not legally liable, they do have a moral responsibility and they should at least help you to progress your claim. I wouldn't let it lie and I would continually bang on about it. The response from Manx Radio would be interesting as I think Freedom were decent advertisers with them.

[doc.fixit]

Staying over,

We went through all the hoops and still the two credit card companies we used came back and asked for more information. The one claim is still outstanding but presumably being attended to, the second company has credited my credit card account with the amount in dispute pending the outcome, whatever that means.

I believe it is almost impossible to actually get actual cash back.

The desk staff at Freedom have been helpful in the sense that they gave us the information they had been told to give but it really wasn't any more than we had already found out ourselves accompanied by lots of, I feel, genuine sympathy even though it's no use in helping our re-imbursment.

I believe last resort, if our claims are refused, is to claim off ABTA's own insurance. Hmmm.

We will see but I am of the same opinion as you about Freedom Travel. One question I would ask is if they received our payments via the credit card company, why don't they just pay us back?

All the best in your quest for recompense.

[GD4ELI]

19 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

We will see but I am of the same opinion as you about Freedom Travel. One question I would ask is if they received our payments via the credit card company, why don't they just pay us back?

All the best in your quest for recompense.

Because your contract is with the credit card company.

[doc.fixit]

Of course I realise that.

But I presume that the credit card co. pay the cash to the travel company that I am doing business with, thereby paying for the goods or services. That means that the travel company has x amount of cash in their coffers to pay for those goods or services.

I then pay back the credit card co.

That to me means that the travel company has a lump of money, therefore, do the travel company pay that lump back to the credit card co? If not how does the credit card co get their money back? Or does the travel business company still have that lump? If they do, why can't they just pay it back to their customers?

[GD4ELI]

11 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Or does the travel business company still have that lump? If they do, why can't they just pay it back to their customers?

That's not the way it works. 

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Of course I realise that.

But I presume that the credit card co. pay the cash to the travel company that I am doing business with, thereby paying for the goods or services. That means that the travel company has x amount of cash in their coffers to pay for those goods or services.

I then pay back the credit card co.

That to me means that the travel company has a lump of money, therefore, do the travel company pay that lump back to the credit card co? If not how does the credit card co get their money back? Or does the travel business company still have that lump? If they do, why can't they just pay it back to their customers?

Unfortunately you misunderstand. That isn’t how the transaction works.

You pay by CC. You pay the CC company. You have a contract with the CC company. It is jointly responsible with the supplier of goods/services, in this case not the travel agent, but the tour operator. That is under Consumer Credit Act.

Agent is the clue. They were acting as a disclosed agent for the tour operator, you are deemed to know that.

So your CC payment goes into the bank account of the travel agent, not the tour operator, less CC company charges, and the travel agent holds it on trust for the tour operator until it pays it over, and the travel agent does a reconciliation with the tour operator, daily, weekly, monthly, whatever, and it hands over the money you paid less it’s Commission.

Tour operator goes belly up there’s no money to refund the travel agent so it has no funds to repay you, anyway you knew it was agent for the tour operator, so you have no claim against it. The tour operator has no funds to reimburse you. ABTA is complicated by the IoM issue.

So you must proceed with the charge back.

Thats a basic summary of the legal situation, NB the CCA doesn’t apply to debit cards.

[doc.fixit]

Thanks John, I'm grateful for the explanation rather than the cryptic comments of the previous poster.

1. If the tour operator has received that payment, eventually, then what has happened to that payment? Just gone? Paid the directors massive salaries no doubt.

2. Is the credit card company insured or does it just lose the cash it pays back?

[GD4ELI]

7 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Thanks John, I'm grateful for the explanation rather than the cryptic comments of the previous poster.

1. If the tour operator has received that payment, eventually, then what has happened to that payment? Just gone? Paid the directors massive salaries no doubt.

2. Is the credit card company insured or does it just lose the cash it pays back?

The credit card co. takes ~ 2% of the price, this is held in reserve for situation like yours.

By contrast, when using a debit card there's no %age, so you're not covered in the same way.

[John Wright]

10 minutes ago, GD4ELI said:

The credit card co. takes ~ 2% of the price, this is held in reserve for situation like yours.

By contrast, when using a debit card there's no %age, so you're not covered in the same way.

Debit cards do charge business customers a smaller commission. CC and charge card issuers charge higher commissions.

The 2% ( or more ) is their income out of which to cover transaction costs, staff, profietc,. They may even insure against these types of failures. It isn’t held in reserve. Anyway, they expect most people in a TC situation to be covered by ABTA or Travel Insurance..

[doc.fixit]

Not much good when you claim off ABTA and they then refer you to claim off the credit card company as do the insurance co. It seems that ABTA really are the last resort and then the struggle starts all over again.

[stayingover]

So.....having read all the above comments.....and having paid by debit card it appears I have weaker options compared to if I had used a credit card...yes?

So... if both the bank and ABTA continue passing my claim between each other do I have the option to commence action against Freedom through small claims court?

many thanks

[GD4ELI]

18 minutes ago, stayingover said:

So.....having read all the above comments.....and having paid by debit card it appears I have weaker options compared to if I had used a credit card...yes?

Yes, debit card significantly weaker.

18 minutes ago, stayingover said:

So... if both the bank and ABTA continue passing my claim between each other do I have the option to commence action against Freedom through small claims court?

many thanks

Depends on the contract you have with Freedom; the T&C on the back in ultra small print. 

Like this but smaller!

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, stayingover said:

So.....having read all the above comments.....and having paid by debit card it appears I have weaker options compared to if I had used a credit card...yes?

So... if both the bank and ABTA continue passing my claim between each other do I have the option to commence action against Freedom through small claims court?

many thanks

You can always issue, but as it won’t succeed it’s pretty pointless.

Assuming you are talking about  TC package, booked via Freedom:

Your contract was with TC, not Freedom. Freedom we’re just agents. The conduit between you and TC