Media bleating

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Based on what logic?

not really the approach you’d expect from a local radio station 

But it's exactly what you'd expect from Manx Radio, if you think about it.  What they are doing here is only accepting information from a small number of 'trusted' sources and ignoring it from everywhere else.  Then they are rewriting it to fit a fixed format, whether that is appropriate or not, assuming this hasn't already been done for them by the providers.  Then they are broadcasting that in various formats and being paid money for doing it.

It's exactly the way they deal with the news.

[gettafa]

On 1/17/2020 at 12:17 AM, James Hampton said:

That was the afterthought. Ordinarily I would have kept pushing until I found out who was responsible for the policy, as ‘funeral director’ is not a protected or registered profession as far as I’m aware - there is no way to police the position. Technically I was the funeral director for the burial itself. I made the box, I drove him to the cemetery and I put him in the ground. I should have just phoned back and said I was calling from Hampton & Co. Funerals but obviously I had other things to deal with at the time, and he wouldn’t have really wanted anyone there anyway! I was only asking on behalf of his siblings really, and it’s been a shame for those who found out afterwards. Ahh well. 

I did hear of a chap who didn't want anything other than the most straightforward funeral. White van - no hearse. Family lifted the box and put it where it needed to go (I imagined it was at the crematorium but it may have been a hole in the ground). No service, no hymns, no music etc. Job done. 

Sounds good to me.

[James Hampton]

6 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Based on what logic?

not really the approach you’d expect from a local radio station 

There wasn’t any logic. The person I spoke to on the phone (I assume a receptionist) was most apologetic - she understood. When I offered to bring the death certificate in person she went and checked with someone, but the answer was still no - easy to do I guess when someone else has to do the dirty work. 

As mentioned I would ordinarily have pursued such an illogical and inconsiderate position until I found whoever had instigated it - or in this case possibly made a complaint. I might even have done so if my dad had made more specific requests, but he hadn’t and it wasn’t the time to take on unnecessary battles. 

I never tried the newspapers due to difficulties with getting him back from Liverpool (boats being cancelled) so we didn’t have any time left. The final decision on the time and date for burial was made only a few days beforehand, so not enough time to print. I don’t know what their policy is. 

1 hour ago, gettafa said:

I did hear of a chap who didn't want anything other than the most straightforward funeral. White van - no hearse. Family lifted the box and put it where it needed to go (I imagined it was at the crematorium but it may have been a hole in the ground). No service, no hymns, no music etc. Job done. 

Sounds good to me.

That’s pretty much how it was. 

I only found out he was dying about two weeks before he did by accident (he wouldn’t have told me), and he didn’t leave any specific instructions just a trail of clues and hints - very much his style. Luckily the combination of the clues I found at his house, the people he had spoken to at Braddan and what he did tell me when I found him in hospital was enough to piece it together hopefully more or less as he wanted - and he can’t complain if it wasn’t! 

Have to say in contrast to the issue with MR, Gordon Cringle in Pt Erin (who organised bringing him back from Aintree Hospital, put him in the box I made and let me take him on my truck), and the team at Braddan Church where all extremely considerate given our unusual requests. 

[P.K.]

 

2 hours ago, James Hampton said:

Have to say in contrast to the issue with MR, Gordon Cringle in Pt Erin (who organised bringing him back from Aintree Hospital, put him in the box I made and let me take him on my truck), and the team at Braddan Church where all extremely considerate given our unusual requests. 

Any chance of this appearing on the island do you think?

http://www.olneygreenburial.co.uk/natural_what_green_burial.asp

[James Hampton]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

 

Any chance of this appearing on the island do you think?

http://www.olneygreenburial.co.uk/natural_what_green_burial.asp

I don’t know what the legal situation is with regards burial grounds on the IOM (if it is legally possible I don’t see why not). Gordon told me they are seeing increasing demand for less ‘ceremonial’ funerals in general - so I guess demand will increase for that sort of thing. He was also the person who made sure I understood that we did not have to do anything at all with regards to ‘ceremony’ at Braddan - other than give the Sexton the correct paperwork. You don’t have to use the church, or the vicar if you don’t want to. 

The ground is actually owned by the local authority (at Braddan, not sure on others), the Church administer it but you can have an entirely non religious process if you wish. I think a lot of people possibly aren’t aware of that - I certainly wasn’t. 

[P.K.]

The reason I picked the Olney site was because my sister used to live nearby and was a "Civil Celebrant" before decamping for warmer climes. Including the "green" interment.

There was, and remains I believe, an increasing demand for a non-religious service more about positives than negatives plus an interment that relects the cycle of life rather than an abrupt end.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

7 hours ago, P.K. said:

The reason I picked the Olney site was because my sister used to live nearby and was a "Civil Celebrant" before decamping for warmer climes. Including the "green" interment.

There was, and remains I believe, an increasing demand for a non-religious service more about positives than negatives plus an interment that relects the cycle of life rather than an abrupt end.

+1 I have argued the same thing for decades but I have been surprised (shocked) at some of the vehement opposition to views like this.

[Declan]

On 1/19/2020 at 6:04 PM, MrPB said:

I find it incredible that fake obituaries are obviously such a societal ill that such convoluted procedures have to be put in place to protect the public. 

But you can’t be too careful. If you don’t have rules, what’s to stop a nerr-do-well bumping off somebody, building a coffin, burying them in the woods and wantonly putting an obituary for them on Manx Radio?

[Kopek]

You have anyone in particular in mind?

[James Hampton]

On 1/20/2020 at 12:49 AM, P.K. said:

The reason I picked the Olney site was because my sister used to live nearby and was a "Civil Celebrant" before decamping for warmer climes. Including the "green" interment.

There was, and remains I believe, an increasing demand for a non-religious service more about positives than negatives plus an interment that relects the cycle of life rather than an abrupt end.

A similar change in demand to that seen for weddings I guess. Only difference being it’s probably a bit more difficult to challenge tradition for a funeral unless the deceased made it clear before they went - which was the case with my Dad.

When we got married in 2006 I think we were the first to use the local humanist celebrant for our main event, but it has become much more common now I think. We were legally married a few hours before in the registry office with only the two witnesses present as at that time you couldn’t do the legal stuff elsewhere - as you could I believe in the UK (have private venues registered to conduct ceremonies). I don’t know if that’s changed in the IOM since, but it’s what makes me wonder if there might be a similar legal block on private burial grounds as you’ve linked to. 

 

 

[Roger Mexico]

11 hours ago, James Hampton said:

When we got married in 2006 I think we were the first to use the local humanist celebrant for our main event, but it has become much more common now I think. We were legally married a few hours before in the registry office with only the two witnesses present as at that time you couldn’t do the legal stuff elsewhere - as you could I believe in the UK (have private venues registered to conduct ceremonies). I don’t know if that’s changed in the IOM since, but it’s what makes me wonder if there might be a similar legal block on private burial grounds as you’ve linked to. 

The law changed in 2011 to allow 'approved places' for marriages and civil partnerships and there's a list available.   You can also apply for a one-off licence for a non-regular venue (even on planes or boats).  Obviously burials are more complicated.

[John Wright]

I used a humanist celebrant for my fathers service at the crem in 2002. Only issue is that the religious symbols are fixed, can’t be removed. 
 

I think at the lawn cemetery chapel they can be swapped for other symbols, although there are multiple crosses on the entrance wall.

Dad had asked for a bin liner and thrown off the back of the ferry. 

 

[Declan]

1 hour ago, MrPB said:

They’d be a pretty poor murderer to do an obituary! 

Ahh you’ve found the flaw in Manx Radio’s reasoning. 

[gettafa]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

 

Dad had asked for a bin liner and thrown off the back of the ferry. 

 

As the Steam Packet used to do. Well sort of. Certainly in the 1980s it was not unusual to see the galley door open and a black bin liner chucked over board.

 

(ps no disrespect to your Dad, John. Just thought I'd lever in an issue I had first hand experience of)

 

[John Wright]

12 minutes ago, gettafa said:

As the Steam Packet used to do. Well sort of. Certainly in the 1980s it was not unusual to see the galley door open and a black bin liner chucked over board.

 

(ps no disrespect to your Dad, John. Just thought I'd lever in an issue I had first hand experience of)

 

That’s fine. I’ve no problems with that. If it had been possible we would have followed his wishes.

Instead we spread portions of ashes in places he loved. 
 

Funeral director had $ signs In his eyes, disappointed, it was cheapest coffin and just the hearse. Then, a couple months later a celebration of his life, whole day, jazz band, marquee, catering. Lots of laughter.

Yes, I remember the bin bags off the back of the boats, the seagulls following the boats. And one trip a 7 or 8 year old collecting cups and saucers and hurling them over board. If it had continued we’d have been able to walk to Liverpool.