The Old Git Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Every since March 2020, every Monday's low figures (which of course relate to Sunday) have greeted with loud cries of joy that things are getting better. Every Tuesday there's then cries of dismay as the figures go up again. Followed by all sorts of mad conspiracy theories as to why one of these is the true picture and the other should be ignored. Every week. Every fucking week. Would you expect self administered LFTs to follow the same pattern? People testing for work, but maybe not testing / reporting before going out at the weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Every since March 2020, every Monday's low figures (which of course relate to Sunday) have greeted with loud cries of joy that things are getting better. Every Tuesday there's then cries of dismay as the figures go up again. Followed by all sorts of mad conspiracy theories as to why one of these is the true picture and the other should be ignored. Every week. Every fucking week. The only figures that should matter are hospital cases which have stayer almost constant between 7 and 10 since Novemver. The ICU figure seems to have been between 0 and 1 for the same period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 15 hours ago, Raffles said: Covid sickness benefits were £460 (£230 each week of isolation) up until yesterday. Payable whether or not you got paid by your employer. Now reduced to £300 and not payable if you receive sick pay or full wage from your employer. Why would people have waited until now? Seven days or less isolation. £300 per week is more than £230. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoo Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 15 hours ago, opusManx said: More grist for the mill... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/quebec-health-tax-unvaccinated-coronavirus Getting laughable now. Governments trying every possible way to squeeze more money out of it's citizens whilst transferring it directly into the pockets of pharma shareholders. The mafia wouldn't even have this much front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Danoo said: Getting laughable now. Governments trying every possible way to squeeze more money out of it's citizens whilst transferring it directly into the pockets of pharma shareholders. The mafia wouldn't even have this much front. Yes and no. It's a tricky one and I very much doubt the money will be going to big Pharma. Do you think it's 100% fine for someone to not get vaxxed then end up in hospital potentially costing £1000s in treatment which the rest of us then have to pay for? I can't remember which country it was, but one was proposing to charge any unvaxxed people that get hospitalised for their covid treatment. Personally I'd say this seems much more reasonable and equitable. EDITED TO ADD: It's Singapore charging. Australia are considering. Edited January 12, 2022 by The Phantom 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Yes and no. It's a tricky one and I very much doubt the money will be going to big Pharma. Do you think it's 100% fine for someone to not get vaxxed then end up in hospital potentially costing £1000s in treatment which the rest of us then have to pay for? I can't remember which country it was, but one was proposing to charge any unvaxxed people that get hospitalised for their covid treatment. Personally I'd say this seems much more reasonable and equitable. Think it was Singapore that charges unvaccinated for hospital, Austria will be fining unvaccinated as well as banning them from most venues, transport, Italy going to fine all unvaccinated over 50 plus similar restrictions to Austria, France, Germany etc all have strong restrictions on unvaccinated. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, Banker said: Think it was Singapore that charges unvaccinated for hospital, Austria will be fining unvaccinated as well as banning them from most venues, transport, Italy going to fine all unvaccinated over 50 plus similar restrictions to Austria, France, Germany etc all have strong restrictions on unvaccinated. Yeah I googled after I posted. Personally I disagree with the restrictions for the unvaxxed and forcing anyone to have it. If you don't want it, fine. The enforcement of this is causing far too much polarization. However I do agree with Singapore's idea. If you're unvaxxed you're paying your own Covid-19 hospital bills. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, The Phantom said: However I do agree with Singapore's idea. If you're unvaxxed you're paying your own Covid-19 hospital bills. My gut feeling is similar, however charging the unvaxxed for their covid treatment is in the same ballpark as charging smokers if they get lung disease, charging the obese for just about anything wrong with them, charging drinkers for getting pissed and falling over or fighting... We either have a health service that is free at the point of delivery or not. I don't necessarily disagree with charging people for healthcare, but I don't think this single issue discriminatory method is the way forward. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, wrighty said: My gut feeling is similar, however charging the unvaxxed for their covid treatment is in the same ballpark as charging smokers if they get lung disease, charging the obese for just about anything wrong with them, charging drinkers for getting pissed and falling over or fighting... We either have a health service that is free at the point of delivery or not. I don't necessarily disagree with charging people for healthcare, but I don't think this single issue discriminatory method is the way forward. True. I was thinking along the same lines. I think accidents are just accidents - i.e. if I crash my mountainbike and get injured. But if you've virtually done something to specifically harm yourself... What about a failed suicide? There is tax on booze and fags that should go to the NHS. Is that not also the idea behind the sugar tax? Hey it's certainly not perfect nor a solution, just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opusManx Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 13, 2022 by opusManx 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danoo Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Yes and no. It's a tricky one and I very much doubt the money will be going to big Pharma. Do you think it's 100% fine for someone to not get vaxxed then end up in hospital potentially costing £1000s in treatment which the rest of us then have to pay for? I can't remember which country it was, but one was proposing to charge any unvaxxed people that get hospitalised for their covid treatment. Personally I'd say this seems much more reasonable and equitable. EDITED TO ADD: It's Singapore charging. Australia are considering. We keep hearing this tired old trope but the real world evidence doesn't seem to back it up. If we start to charge individuals for their health decisions then we have to keep going with it and target the obese, the smokers, the heavy drinkers etc... It's the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. ETA: Just seen Wrighty's post, which duplicates this. Edited January 12, 2022 by Danoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 12 minutes ago, wrighty said: My gut feeling is similar, however charging the unvaxxed for their covid treatment is in the same ballpark as charging smokers if they get lung disease, charging the obese for just about anything wrong with them, charging drinkers for getting pissed and falling over or fighting... We either have a health service that is free at the point of delivery or not. I don't necessarily disagree with charging people for healthcare, but I don't think this single issue discriminatory method is the way forward. You're right. It's the thin end of a wedge. Once they establish a charging mechanism then it won't 'just' be for Covid. It will spread to the examples you have listed then to people who have an 'unhealthy' BMI. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, wrighty said: We either have a health service that is free at the point of delivery or not. I don't necessarily disagree with charging people for healthcare, but I don't think this single issue discriminatory method is the way forward. I don't either though, it's worth pointing out that many of these countries have compulsory insurance schemes, so what they would be basically doing is increasing the premium for those engaged in high risk activity. Though I suspect the Quebec scheme will never actually happen and charging unvaccinated individuals for care is going to cause the sort of problems that charging for emergency care normally does. Most of these measures are actually virtue signalling by the state and the usual government strategy of trying to blame things that go wrong on anyone except the people in charge. In current circumstances, restricting the movements of the unvaccinated can only be justified clinically for the reason that it's their health that is being protected, not that they might infect others. It's astonishing just how much difference vaccination does make though. Even if you look at local figures of the seven in hospital last week, three were unvaccinated (wildly disproportionate when you consider the Island's high vaccination rates) and the other four hadn't received a booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I don't either though, it's worth pointing out that many of these countries have compulsory insurance schemes, so what they would be basically doing is increasing the premium for those engaged in high risk activity. Good point. I have to pay extra on my travel insurance if I'm going to do winter sports or certain other high risk sports and don't quibble about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 People already pay for healthcare. The NHS isn't free and "we" don't pay enough for it to operate properly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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