Nellie Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: Does Maska have ANY expertise or knowledge about infrastructure, road structure or any physical, structural expertise? During the Scrutiny Committee investigation into the Promenade fiasco, a couple of weeks ago, Mrs Maska asked the DoI officers several questions about the apparent disregard of planning permission, reminded them that the whole Prom is a conservation area, and that they couldn't randomly change colours, finishes etc, to expedite completion. This looks like a rather unsubtle attempt, by Baker, to get a potential trouble-maker inside the DoI tent**. ** the DoI tent is probably a more likely to be a very luxurious and over-engineered marquee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 A cynical move then by Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: According to the Tynwald website: Mrs Maska changed her surname from Hendy on the occasion of her marriage in 2018. Actually Politics 101 would tell you that in many, maybe most, countries there are loads of unelected members in the cabinet. Indeed in many you can't be an elected parliamentarian and be in the cabinet. Wiki has a useful overview: Even in the UK, the Prime Minister can effectively appoint anyone they want to Cabinet and validate it by making them a member of the House of Lords. So they certainly don't have to be elected. In fact in the UK there was a rule (up to 1926) that any MP who was made a Cabinet Minister had to submit himself to a parliamentary by-election to make sure that his constituents were happy with him doing so, This is a classic example of where people fervently demand that what we do in this particular country at this particular moment of time is the only way in which things can possibly be done and any alternative is is deeply evil and undemocratic. Right up until it becomes convenient to change things and then the 'new normal' is championed with equal fervour and a complete forgetting of the immediate past. So everyone says that the Chief Minister has to be an MHK - until Corkill has to go and Gelling, an MLC, takes over. Or Bell claims that Minister must be MHKs - until it suits him to appoint Crookall. What is actually important in a democracy is not who the Cabinet are, but the control that the elected legislature has over them, to hold them to account. So the rule in the Isle of Man that Ministers have to be MHKs actually works against democracy because it means that a substantial proportion of the House of Keys has to back whatever nonsense the Cabinet puts forward. We really need a different system or more elected members to balance that. The Kiribati system, as recommended by Prof Edge for the Isle of Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Kiribati Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Nellie said: During the Scrutiny Committee investigation into the Promenade fiasco, a couple of weeks ago, Mrs Maska asked the DoI officers several questions about the apparent disregard of planning permission, reminded them that the whole Prom is a conservation area, and that they couldn't randomly change colours, finishes etc, to expedite completion. This looks like a rather unsubtle attempt, by Baker, to get a potential trouble-maker inside the DoI tent**. ** the DoI tent is probably a more likely to be a very luxurious and over-engineered marquee. Absolutely. And we don't want anybody with Mrs Maska's relevant qualifications pissing into the tepee, do we? Far better to have her safely within. I look forward to her next public utterances involving the DOI then, that will be the proof of the pudding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongoose-Man Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, manxman34 said: The ministerial system was all about giving people titles, supposedly so they would command more respect abroad. It's unlikely ever to have worked, unless they remained silent. The board system had less silo thinking, because the chair of one board would be a member of others and could have a broader view. The current system succeeds only in terms of self-aggrandisement . It also encourages nodding dogs. There is no political direction, just self interest, vaguely right wing sentiment, and drift. Whilst it is on record that one of the drivers for adopting the title of minister was to ensure appropriate recognition for our political leaders in off-Island dealings, that should not be confused as the driver for a ministerial system of government, which was an altogether different set of issues. 2 hours ago, Frances said: I been critical of the ministerial system for years (check on my posts) it was designed to be corruptible and proved so many times - the board system had some defects but allowed a wider base from which to draw on expertise and also to avoid many of the costly mistakes made in the last couple of decades whilst the VAT fiddles were around. The CS needs a significant clear out - DOI in particular but health + social services as well. The ministerial system is far from perfect but, in my opinion, as a system of government it is eminently superior to the old, creaking and woeful board system. 2 hours ago, doc.fixit said: Does Maska have ANY expertise or knowledge about infrastructure, road structure or any physical, structural expertise? Highly unlikely, but then, detailed knowledge on the various and diverse functions of government - whether replacing hips or filling potholes - is not a requisite of being an elected representative, a minister, chair or member etc. And nor should it be. That is the role of the civil and wider public service. Ministers are there to set policy - in the best interests of the people they represent - doing so having reviewed advice from officials, who are then charged with implementing the policy decision, whatever that may be and regardless of whether it matches the advice given or their personal views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Absolutely. And we don't want anybody with Mrs Maska's relevant qualifications pissing into the tepee, do we? Far better to have her safely within. I look forward to her next public utterances involving the DOI then, that will be the proof of the pudding. Be careful now, she may have to eat some humble pie at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, doc.fixit said: Does Maska have ANY expertise or knowledge about infrastructure, road structure or any physical, structural expertise? It would seem not She may have dug over her flowerbeds though ( and that is not a euphemism) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Newbie Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 I’m not surprised they have put an MLC on the DOI. It’s political suicide pure and simple being associated with that bunch of total cretins. They moved Harmer out as he would have no chance of getting re-elected after the prom fiasco and all the other fuck ups. They’ll see Bakers chances off as well. So at least an MLC isn’t going to get their re-election chances burned when the next monumental DOI fuck-up comes along. Which will probably be in about 3 weeks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 27, 2020 Author Share Posted June 27, 2020 I think there'll be a campaign in the run up to the coming general election to demand democratic polling for LegCo members & probably government itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Donald Trumps said: I think there'll be a campaign in the run up to the coming general election to demand democratic polling for LegCo members & probably government itself There'll be all sorts of demands and promises made on the run up to the next election. As ever. None of which are of any substance whatsoever. And all of which will be conveniently forgotten as soon as a new set of incumbents take their seats for the forthcoming 5 years. Guaranteed is that the first to be forgotten will be anything to do with Tynwald and Legco reform. How long have people been trying now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 21 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Even odder, according to the Tynwald website, they still have Thomas as Chair of the Public Services Commission (which gives a 40% upgrade to a non-Minister) though since 2015 this would normally have been combined with the Policy and Resources Minister. Maybe they've forgotten to do the paperwork to sack him. I am neither chair PSC nor vice chair PSPA nor chair of all the other CoMin committees mentioned on Tynwald website. I will get it changed. This happened the day after the announcement of my dismissal as Minister. I note government webpages are out of date too. I was not ‘sacked’ from PSC by CM because he decided I breached collective responsibility, because I clearly did not in that board role. As you suggest I was removed because CM decided there was a post 2015 ‘convention’ since Modernising Ministerial Government Tynwald debate and decision. I think quite a few wanted to keep me on at PSC and PSPA at least, and I spent the afternoon I was sacked chairing Tynwald briefing about cost sharing in the context of public sector pension reform, dealing with all the issues members had which were then not raised in the Tynwald debate!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Non-Believer said: There'll be all sorts of demands and promises made on the run up to the next election. As ever. None of which are of any substance whatsoever. And all of which will be conveniently forgotten as soon as a new set of incumbents take their seats for the forthcoming 5 years. Guaranteed is that the first to be forgotten will be anything to do with Tynwald and Legco reform. How long have people been trying now? Well, let's just let them walk all over us then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 26 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said: I am neither chair PSC nor vice chair PSPA nor chair of all the other CoMin committees mentioned on Tynwald website. I will get it changed. This happened the day after the announcement of my dismissal as Minister. I note government webpages are out of date too. I was not ‘sacked’ from PSC by CM because he decided I breached collective responsibility, because I clearly did not in that board role. As you suggest I was removed because CM decided there was a post 2015 ‘convention’ since Modernising Ministerial Government Tynwald debate and decision. I think quite a few wanted to keep me on at PSC and PSPA at least, and I spent the afternoon I was sacked chairing Tynwald briefing about cost sharing in the context of public sector pension reform, dealing with all the issues members had which were then not raised in the Tynwald debate!!! This 'cost sharing' of which you speak is that a euphemism for he public will have to cough up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 31 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said: Well, let's just let them walk all over us then We've been letting them for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Newbie Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 19 hours ago, Kopek said: Actually her quals should be of use at the DoI? You’d think so but Harmer had an MA in Engineering from Cambridge University and was completely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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