IOM newspapers and virtue signing

[Mr Newbie]

1 minute ago, VinnieK said:

Well, you are the one who thought the fact that (according, wrongly, to you) the story came 'a couple of weeks' after the event was important enough to mention.

Thanks. I’m so grateful that some of the MF stalwarts suddenly seem to take an interest in my posts. 

[VinnieK]

Just trying to understand why you think the newspapers are milking it, when all they've done is run a piece on a topical subject and have actually been slower in doing so than the rest of the Island's media.

[Mr Newbie]

6 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Just trying to understand why you think the newspapers are milking it, when all they've done is run a piece on a topical subject and have actually been slower in doing so than the rest of the Island's media.

Because of the timing. They’ve had 200 years to run the story. It’s all known facts. 

[VinnieK]

Ah! I see.  Thanks.

They've done the same with the Steampacket's involvement in the Dunkirk evacuation a couple of times now. It's nothing short of a disgrace.

[quilp]

44 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I listened to Stu's programme Thurs evening...parked outside of A&E waiting for someone.

The debate rumbles on...strangely with texts referred to but with many texts not read out.

The battle with the thought police seems to be rumbling on.

It would be interesting to know the tone of said texts. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Stu is still a target for vindictiveness. 

[Mr Newbie]

7 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Ah! I see.  Thanks.

They've done the same with the Steampacket's involvement in the Dunkirk evacuation a couple of times now. It's nothing short of a disgrace.

Not really the Dunkirk 75 year celebrations were on a timeline between the 27 May and 4 June. That’s quite recent. As opposed to 200 or more years ago. 

[quilp]

3 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

Not really the Dunkirk 75 year celebrations were on a timeline between the 27 May and 4 June. That’s quite recent. As opposed to 200 or more years ago. 

Wasn't it the 80th anniversary? Not that it matters really, it's only a date. 

[Mr Newbie]

4 minutes ago, quilp said:

Wasn't it the 80th anniversary? Not that it matters really, it's only a date. 

July was the end date so it’s not unsurprising that it ends up in this months newspaper. Being that the evacuation ended in July. 

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, finlo said:

The 'Dog mills' got its name because they used to farm dog's there and ship their bones to Jamaica for the whitening of sugar.

Well there are certain websites which claim that, but it seems unlikely and you're probably better relying on a more authoritative source, such as Manx Forums.

There are actually a lot of Manx placenames which contain an element meaning 'dog' but most of them still have it in the original Manx:

Quote

Moddey (pl. voddee), ' a dog,' in Cooll VODDY, ' Dog Nook'; CRONK-Y-VODDEY, ' Hill of the Dog, or Dogs ' ; ELLANY-VODDEY, ' Isle of the Dog, or Dogs,' in Ballaugh Curragh ,~ CARRICK-Y-VODDEY, ' Rock of the Dog, or Dogs ' ; MWYLLIN MODDEY (ob.), ' Mill (of the) Dog,' now known as ' The Dog Mills ' ; and in various BALLAMODHAS and BALLAMODDEYS, ' Dog Farm.' On the farm of BALLAMODHA in Malew there is a granite font, which probably belonged to an adjoining keeill. [(I.) KNOCKAVADDY, (G.) BLAIRMODDIE.]

So either there was a lot of dog-farming in the old days or it's just where there was once a mill.  And a dog.  It's possible the mill at Dog Mills was once used for crushing bones (all sorts, but probably mostly cattle) for fertiliser.  But the rest of the story looks like some spoof story - no doubt dreamt up at the Foxdale Submarine Base.

[Declan]

Why breed the dogs  here?

They’d then have to transport them to Africa and then onto the West Indies. 

[Lagman]

6 hours ago, Mr Newbie said:

I’ve studied Manx history and especially our Manx shipping history. So I wonder why this is appearing exactly now?

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=56580

The Editor of the local papers seems to be hopelessly virtue signing for clicks. Has he not read Matthew Kneales English Passengers which must be 20 years old by now? Historically a lot of Manx history and Manx family wealth is bootlegging. 

Oh, I think you know why. As has been previously discussed here, anything positive will left out - (such as from Josem -

"If there's going to be any education of the history of the Isle of Man as it relates to slavery, then it should also be one that is based, in part, at the pride that our island produced a Medal of Honor winner for the Union in the American Civil War - William Garrett.

A little more information is available online here and elsewhere: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6136915/william-garrett

This Manx-born man was literally awarded America's highest honor for his service in the literal war against slavery.")

Then we have Mark Wilks freeing Samuel from slavery. etc.

William Kennish (Who's son also fought for the north in the war) risked his life trying to save a black man he was exploring with.

 http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/iomnhas/v062p181.htm

 All of these things will be  ommitted/forgotten  even though they are already known "Isle of Man historic connections with slavery" for propaganda purposes such as in the  Manx newspapers article (that you aren't allowed to comment on) - you can't undermine with positive things.

We've known about the people named for over a century, it mentions 80 Manx captains but provides no evidence.  Lets see how Manx these people were, most of the "Manx smugglers" turned out not to be from here as George Moore whinged about. -

 http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/iomnhas/v044p640.htm

"In the latter half of the seventeenth century, as a consequence of the evergrowing trade between the western British ports and America, together with such fortuitous influences as the Great Plague and the Fire of 1666, there was some dispersal of merchants from the City of London. According to Bullock, at that time a number of commercial adventurers made a settlement in Man, having realised the opportunities of lawful and illicit trade offered by the Island's position and its low import duties."

"Among later immigrants was one Philip Moore, a citizen of London engaged in the Norway trade. He is said to have belonged to Wigtonshire, and in Man he founded a family known as the "Moore's of the Hills," the Hills being an estate near Douglas now swallowed up by the modern town.¹ He died in 1728 and was succeeded by his son Philip, who was one of the Keys until his death in 1746. He had four sons - Philip, George, James, and John."

"George (1709-1787), the second son of Philip II, was the most notable of the family. A merchant from his youth up, he established a flourishing business in Peel, was a member of the Keys, and their Speaker during the trying period which followed the Revestment in 1765. He received a knighthood at the close of his public career.

Among the Bridge House papers now in the Manx Museum are Letter Books which once belonged to him and which form the chief sources for this account of one of the leading and most successful Manx merchants of the eighteenth century. The first foolscap volume contains correspondence closely written in various hands during the years 1750 to 1760, and for the most part relating to his business affairs. The second, a slim volume of a hundred pages, is mainly occupied by Moore's letters when he was in London in 1766 on deputation from the Keys. The last entry was made in 1780."

"As far as possible he avoided Douglas in his transactions, owing to the risks incurred by dealing with the alien merchants who swarmed there. He resented the presence of these intruders, not only because many of them were shady adventurers of uncertain financial stability, but because they were formidable competitors who did not hesitate to undercut in prices, and thus embarrassed him in his dealings with customers. Writing to Dan Mylrea in 1751, he says: " Pity it is that no method has yet been taken whereby the trade of the Isle might be solely occupied by its natives."

Then there's - John Taubman -

"Advocate, politician and merchant John Taubman, for one, switched from Guinea goods to direct investment in slaving voyages. He became one of the central political forces in the island during the second half of the 18th century.

Taubman and his descendants were at the centre of a tightly-knit clique that dominated the Manx political establishment for generations. Everyone was connected, whether through business or marriage.

In the 1790s, while he was Speaker of the House of Keys, Taubman was directly related to 12 of the other members of the house, while four more were connected with him through his business interests.

To these merchants, who had made their fortunes in smuggling, it seems that slavery was just another profitable business."

 - One of Taubman's decendants -

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/worthies/p082.htm

"the eldest son of John Taubman Goldie-Taubman, of the Nunnery,  and Ellen, daughter of Humphrey Senhouse, of Netherhall Cumberland, was educated at Eton, and, on leaving that school in 1856, he travelled extensively. In 1859, he was selected as a member of the self-elected House of Keys, and, in 1867, on being elected as one of the representatives of Douglas in the new popularly elected House, he was chosen as speaker. He continued both to represent Douglas and to hold the office of speaker till his death. It may be mentioned as remarkable that his father, grandfather, and great-grandfather were also speakers of the House of Keys."

Manx Freemasonry, too, found a good friend in him, so that when, in 1886, he became the first Right Worshipful Grand Master of the newly-formed Provincial Grand Lodge of Freemasons, his appointment gave general satisfaction."

Captain Hugh Crow - "When he retired, he turned down the chance to become an MHK."

Strange how these people seem to be  connected with MHK's, "merchants" and freemasonry.

"But there may be more captains and more voyages." - Or there may not be.

"For the Isle of Man, Guinea goods were just the beginning of almost a century of involvement, direct and indirect, in the business of slavery." - What is indirect involvement? a boat?

"Liverpool’s pre-eminence in the trade is at least partly due to the supply of merchants, sailors and investors just across the Irish Sea." - Utter nonsense, Yeah I 'm sure Liverpool, Britain and the Empire would have struggled to do these thing without us.

"Sometimes we keep unpleasant truths at arm’s length. " - All of this has been known for over a century. I read all about it years ago.

"We celebrate abolition but ignore the centuries that came before it, and the toxic legacies of slavery which still haunt our societies."

How are they "ignored"? -  Here's some things that are ignored more -

transportation/banishment for petty crimes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation , excessive press ganging,

The Barbary slave trade - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

 

 

[Lagman]

5 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Of course slavery is alive and well in the world today...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/10/17/this-map-shows-where-the-worlds-30-million-slaves-live-there-are-60000-in-the-u-s/

 

Slavery in Africa and the Middle East has been going on since time immemorial right up to the present day -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

 - "refers to slave markets on the Barbary Coast of North Africa, which included the Ottoman provinces of Algeria, Tunisia and Tripolitania and the independent sultanate of Morocco, between the 16th and middle of the 18th century. The Ottoman provinces in North Africa were nominally under Ottoman suzerainty, but in reality they were mostly autonomous.

European slaves were acquired by Barbary pirates in slave raids on ships and by raids on coastal towns from Italy to the Netherlands, Ireland and the Southwest of Britain, as far north as Iceland and into the eastern Mediterranean.

The Ottoman eastern Mediterranean was the scene of intense piracy. As late as the 18th century^"

"In his 2003 book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500–1800, Ohio State University history professor Robert Davis states that most modern historians minimize the white slave trade. Davis estimates that slave traders from Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli alone enslaved 1 million to 1.25 million Europeans in North Africa, from the beginning of the 16th century to the middle of the 18th (these numbers do not include the European people who were enslaved by Morocco and by other raiders and traders of the Mediterranean Sea coast). Roughly 700 Americans were held captive in this region as slaves between 1785 and 1815. However, to extrapolate his numbers, Davis assumes the number of European slaves captured by Barbary pirates remained roughly constant for a 250-year period, stating:

There are no records of how many men, women and children were enslaved, but it is possible to calculate roughly the number of fresh captives that would have been needed to keep populations steady and replace those slaves who died, escaped, were ransomed, or converted to Islam. On this basis it is thought that around 8,500 new slaves were needed annually to replenish numbers - about 850,000 captives over the century from 1580 to 1680. By extension, for the 250 years between 1530 and 1780, the figure could easily have been as high as 1,250,000.

The authorities of Ottoman and pre-Ottoman times kept no relevant official records, but observers in the late 1500s and early 1600s estimated that around 35,000 European slaves were held throughout this period on the Barbary Coast, across Tripoli and Tunis, but mostly in Algiers. The majority were sailors (particularly those who were English), taken with their ships, but others were fishermen and coastal villagers. However, most of these captives were people from lands close to Africa, particularly Italy.

From bases on the Barbary coast, North Africa, the Barbary pirates raided ships traveling through the Mediterranean and along the northern and western coasts of Africa, plundering their cargo and enslaving the people they captured. From at least 1500, the pirates also conducted raids on seaside towns of Italy, Spain, France, England, the Netherlands and as far away as Iceland, capturing men, women and children. On some occasions, settlements such as Baltimore in Ireland were abandoned following a raid, only being resettled many years later. Between 1609 and 1616, England alone lost 466 merchant ships to Barbary pirates.

While Barbary corsairs looted the cargo of ships they captured, their primary goal was to capture non-Muslim people for sale as slaves or for ransom.

Sixteenth- and 17th-century customs statistics suggest that Istanbul's additional slave imports from the Black Sea may have totaled around 2.5 million from 1450 to 1700.The markets declined after Sweden and the United States defeated the Barbary States in the Barbary Wars (1800-1815). A US Navy expedition under Commodore Edward Preble engaged gunboats and fortifications in Tripoli in 1804. A British diplomatic mission led to some confused orders and a massacre; UK and Dutch ships delivered a punishing nine-hour bombardment of Algiers in 1816 leading to an acceptance of terms. The trade ended with the French conquest of Algeria (1830-1847). The Kingdom of Morocco had already suppressed piracy and recognized the United States as an independent country in 1776.

The slave trade had existed in North Africa since antiquity, with a supply of African slaves arriving through trans-Saharan trade routes. The towns on the North African coast were recorded in Roman times for their slave markets, and this trend continued into the medieval age. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_slavery

"On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa."

https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/regional-analysis/africa/

[Ďouglas Peel]

10 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

What's "virtue signing"?  

Good examples  could be songstress Lily Allen crying in Calais migrant camp,blaming the UK for it, whilst not actually taking one migrant back to her luxury London home,Or 95% of what crisp salesman Gary Lineker says.Signaling that is.not signing though.

[Karellen]

50,000 Irish men and women were sold into the white slave trade between 1652 and 1659, they were innocent Irish people who were rounded up from across the country by teams of Oliver Cromwell’s “man-catchers”, bound in chains and shipped to Barbados to work on sugar plantations.

Their descendants are still there today – some of them in absolute poverty – isolated, unassimilated and uneducated. 

article

[the stinking enigma]

1 hour ago, Ďouglas Peel said:

Good examples  could be songstress Lily Allen crying in Calais migrant camp,blaming the UK for it, whilst not actually taking one migrant back to her luxury London home,Or 95% of what crisp salesman Gary Lineker says.Signaling that is.not signing though.

Or bojo saying 3 million hongkonganese are eligible to come to the uk yet not putting them all up in his house or offering bed and breakfast free of charge