Brexit Penny Dropping?

[woolley]

27 minutes ago, alpha-acid said:

But that is exactly what you are doing, going back to Imperial Britain

Er, no. The re-establishment of self-determination does not beget a return to empire.

[Non-Believer]

31 minutes ago, alpha-acid said:

But that is exactly what you are doing, going back to Imperial Britain

 

[The Voice of Reason]

It’s all gone a bit quiet on this thread so I offer this.

EU commissioner says ‘Gibraltar is Spanish’

Things are better after Brexit, says Margaritis Schinas as EU and Britain try to reach Brexit deal for the Rock

James Crisp,  EUROPE EDITOR ; James Badcock and Joe Barnes,  BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT5 April 2024 • 1:10pm

 

 

Margaritis Schinas is the European commissioner for promoting the 'European Way of Life' CREDIT: JULIO MUNOZ/SHUTTERSTOCK

An EU commissioner has sparked anger by quipping that Gibraltar is Spanish while dismissing the chances of a Brexit deal for the Rock before a June deadline.

“Gibraltar español,” said Margaritis Schinas, when asked about the sensitive negotiations in Seville which have dragged on for years over 18 rounds and counting.

The slogan, which means “Gibraltar is Spanish” and dates back to the Franco era, is chanted by those who claim the Rock is a colony and rightfully belongs to Spain.

Gibraltar was ceded to Britain in 1713 under the Treaty of Utrecht, which ended the Spanish wars of succession. In a 2002 referendum, 98.97 per cent of Gibraltarians voted down a proposal to share sovereignty with Spain, which continues to claim the territory.

Spain has not demanded sovereignty over the Rock as part of the Brexit negotiations, which makes the EU chief’s joke particularly ill-judged given the sensitivities over the issue.

“I can more comfortably say ‘Gibraltar español’ after Brexit,” said Mr Schinas, the commissioner for promoting the “European Way of Life”. 

“And it’s not just the only area where things are better after Brexit.”

UK and EU negotiators are striving to secure a deal creating a post-Brexit common travel area between Spain and Gibraltar before June’s European Parliament elections.

The elections precede a change of leadership in the EU institution that would delay further talks. Failure to get a UK-EU deal done before the vote could leave Gibraltar facing “no deal” full border controls on movements to and from Spain.

‘Unfortunate and incomprehensible’

Mr Schinas, who is Greek and speaks fluent Spanish, said negotiations had lasted “longer than expected”.

“I don’t believe there will indeed be a result before the European elections, and I think some involved in the negotiation wanted to project a certain optimism that is not reflected in reality,” he said in comments that were branded “very unfortunate and incomprehensible” by a furious Madrid.

The European Commission is handling negotiations with the UK on Spain’s behalf but Madrid will have the final say on whether to accept a deal brokered by Brussels.

Mr Schinas was the commission’s chief spokesman during the Brexit negotiations and vice president of the EU executive in Brussels.

He is not in charge of negotiations over Gibraltar, which are being handled by Maros Sefcovic, the Slovak commissioner, who agreed the Brexit deal for Northern Ireland.

Border control power

London, Brussels and Madrid have agreed on the broad outline of a deal that will grant the Rock membership of the EU’s passport-free Schengen zone.

Gibraltar police and the EU’s Frontex border agency will police the territory’s border at its airport and ports, under the proposed agreement.

Negotiations have been complicated by sensitive sovereignty issues, including a Madrid power grab for joint management of Gibraltar’s airport, which includes an RAF base.

Mr Schinas also doubted whether British negotiators would ultimately accept officers from Frontex policing the airport.

“Our British friends believe that Frontex is very European,” Mr Schinas told Spanish reporters over breakfast on Thursday morning.

Negotiations progressing ‘as planned’

Jose Manuel Albares, the Spanish foreign minister, insisted negotiations were progressing at “a good pace”.

“I have spoken with Commissioner Schinas regarding those statements he made, which seem very unfortunate and incomprehensible to me because Commissioner Schinas is not at all involved in the dossier of the withdrawal agreement concerning Gibraltar,” Mr Albares told Spanish TV.

David Jones, a former Cabinet minister, said: “Schinas has let the cat out of the bag. The EU clearly intends the negotiations to result in Spanish sovereignty over the Rock.

“He underestimates the resolve of both the United Kingdom and the people of Gibraltar.

“As Chief minister Fabian Picardo has made clear, Gibraltar is ‘British, British, British’, and that is the way it will stay.”

Late on Thursday night, the European Commission, under pressure from Madrid, distanced itself from Mr Schinas’ remarks.

It said Mr Sefcovic was in charge of the talks which were proceeding “as planned” and entering “a sensitive phase”.

Sources familiar with the negotiations said that did not mean there had been a breakthrough in the negotiations, which remain deadlocked.

Spanish authorities have not imposed full border controls with Gibraltar since Brexit took legal effect at the end of 2020, but have warned that the situation cannot continue indefinitely.

They have allowed the free flow of Gibraltarians and Spaniards to and from the Rock, including around 15,000 Spain-based workers who are essential to the Gibraltarian economy, providing much-needed employment.

Those workers are essential to the Gibraltarian economy, which offers much-needed employment to the poor Spanish region neighbouring the Rock.

[manxman1980]

@The Voice of Reason not sure what your point is.

Border crossings between Spain and Gibraltar were always going to be affected by Brexit.

95.9% of Gibraltans voted in favour of remain.  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results/local/g

[P.K.]

Rather droll. David Davies finally puts his name to something evergreen and useful:

Welcome to the new Davis Downside Dossier page at Yorkshire Bylines.

What began as an attempt to show just how mistaken David Davis was in October 2016 when, as the minister responsible, he told MPs “there will be no downside to Brexit at all, and considerable upsides,” has now become something of a cause célèbre.

Mr Davis suggested there wouldn’t be a single downside but the list has now grown so large it’s difficult to keep track. For balance upsides are included as well.

To make the dossier easier to maintain, more accessible, and useful as a resource we have converted it into a searchable database. Not only that, but you can also – after filtering if you wish – download the database as a .csv file or as a Word document. Sectors are relatively arbitrary but should help to distill out the topics which interest you most.

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/regular-features/the-davis-downside-dossier/

Like the front pages of the Daily Mail, the Express, the Sun and the Telegraph the Daily Mash rarely fails to amuse. Their take on the UK farmers protests:

Let's forget about all those 'Vote Leave' signs in fields, eh? By a farmer

WE farmers are left with no choice but to protest at cheap, low-quality imports threatening our livelihoods. We’ve done absolutely nothing to deserve it, except that thing in 2016.

But I’m not here to talk about Nexit or Qexit or whatever it was, I really can’t remember. I’m here to highlight the influx of cheap food from abroad. I hate abroad and I’d do anything to make foreigners f**k off. But that’s not relevant to this discussion...

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/lets-forget-about-all-those-vote-leave-signs-in-fields-eh-by-a-farmer-20240326246442

[La Colombe]

 

[Freggyragh]

Get a round of applause for stating the obvious. 

[La Colombe]

 

[woolley]

9 hours ago, La Colombe said:

 

Overrated as a businessman. He rode success at times as well as presiding over a good deal of decline. Not an entrepreneur either. He never created anything at his own risk with his own money. Started out as an M&S trainee and schmoozed his way up the greasy pole, saying the right things to the right people at the right times. Jumped ship and headed up various PLCs. Typical stuffed suit beloved of the City and the establishment, while being remunerated accordingly.

As he says himself, he's an old moaning remainer. Of course he is! He even chaired the failed "Britain Stronger in Europe" official remain campaign, so naturally he doesn't get it. If he thinks Britain's demise started in 2016, he's well wide of the mark. It started before any of us were born and continued throughout our membership of the EU. He says everything that has happened since 2016 except Covid has a link back to Brexit. Presumably including the Russian invasion of Ukraine and resulting gas and oil shock? He obviously hasn't looked at the disarray in the EU recently. Plenty of demise going on there too.

[P.K.]

17 hours ago, woolley said:

Overrated as a businessman. He rode success at times as well as presiding over a good deal of decline. Not an entrepreneur either. He never created anything at his own risk with his own money. Started out as an M&S trainee and schmoozed his way up the greasy pole, saying the right things to the right people at the right times. Jumped ship and headed up various PLCs. Typical stuffed suit beloved of the City and the establishment, while being remunerated accordingly.

As he says himself, he's an old moaning remainer. Of course he is! He even chaired the failed "Britain Stronger in Europe" official remain campaign, so naturally he doesn't get it. If he thinks Britain's demise started in 2016, he's well wide of the mark. It started before any of us were born and continued throughout our membership of the EU. He says everything that has happened since 2016 except Covid has a link back to Brexit. Presumably including the Russian invasion of Ukraine and resulting gas and oil shock? He obviously hasn't looked at the disarray in the EU recently. Plenty of demise going on there too.

Reduced to playing the man and not the ball.

Again!

On 3/3/2024 at 8:59 PM, woolley said:

Then we have dear old @P.K. arlier on he quoted an article from the inevitable Guardian (Simon Jenkins FFS, an oddball who previously gave us his wisdom that London should leave both the EU AND the UK!). The article is nearly 3 years old, written at the time of the pandemic and before war in Ukraine, supply problems and inflation derailed the entire global economy. And even at the time it really was all complete rubbish.

[woolley]

3 hours ago, P.K. said:

Reduced to playing the man and not the ball.

Again!

Not reduced at all. You and I played the ball in every conceivable way, ad nauseam, until we kicked it to death. Nothing more to be said about it that hasn't been already. This was just a spot of housekeeping, and if it's a person's opinion that one is commenting on, then obviously one has to address the person as the subject, and clearly it is relevant in this case that Rose chaired the failed official remain campaign.

[P.K.]

3 hours ago, woolley said:

Not reduced at all. You and I played the ball in every conceivable way, ad nauseam, until we kicked it to death. Nothing more to be said about it that hasn't been already. This was just a spot of housekeeping, and if it's a person's opinion that one is commenting on, then obviously one has to address the person as the subject, and clearly it is relevant in this case that Rose chaired the failed official remain campaign.

It would only be relevant if what he said was untrue.

https://nixons.substack.com/p/how-brexit-wrecked-the-stock-market

[woolley]

4 hours ago, P.K. said:

It would only be relevant if what he said was untrue.

https://nixons.substack.com/p/how-brexit-wrecked-the-stock-market

What he said was patently untrue, and in your latest link all of those trends have been in train since long before Brexit. I think he even mentions 1997 himself. It's easy to search out links to support a position.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/london-regains-sole-top-spot-000100189.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFlYKSgVzmdPZgPf-1ucsav3NVS-DZ_ejDf67BaKsCKjSN9Zw4oViUe0VWJLdLuHJQm96FTeZY0DB6uLf8PnRfnMYBmlaJbOj7H7TWH5zHLdaNw4r2cawOdRhyzWXgV_2H5MfpN-Y2JDIp-V3x26AvD3b5jw3Zg-PXzLhgadkgrS

Of course Brexit was about far more than financial centres in any case.

Full marks for your indefatigability though, which could never be in doubt.

[P.K.]

7 hours ago, woolley said:

Of course Brexit was about far more than financial centres in any case.

Full marks for your indefatigability though, which could never be in doubt.

Ah yes, the much hackneyed "sovereignty" with a hefty dose of "immigration" mixed in...

[Max Power]

An interesting, if long, New Yorker article on the ills affecting Britain, including reasons for Brexit. 

Definitely worth a read if you have time.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what-have-fourteen-years-of-conservative-rule-done-to-britain?utm_source=twitter&utm_brand=tny&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=social&mbid=social_twitter