House of Keys Order Paper April 30th

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

I don't think that's true.  Simply because Hooper is so full of himself that he obviously thinks that his recent behaviour has been impeccable and universally acclaimed except from a few teachers who had it in for him since RGS, no doubt because they were jealous of his transcendent genius.  He wouldn't think any cats - live, dead or Schrödinger's - necessary. 

Spot on , had several meetings with him over years and he does think he is an expert in most subjects. Can be very helpful and friendly if he agrees with your point and concerns 

[Roger Mexico]

49 minutes ago, 2112 said:

We are still without a Bishop. Maybe once this legislation completes its passage, the island will get a Bishop, or if Legco vote the legislation through, maybe the role of Bishop of Sodor and Man become a distant memory? 

There seem to be a number of bishoprics vacant even longer than Sodor and Man, so it may just be that the CofE is just  slow at appointing them at the moment.  I suspect the hierarchy would like to abolish it, because it's an awkward anomaly, but it would incredibly complicated to do because it's been around for so long.

[Moghrey Mie]

1 hour ago, 2112 said:

We are still without a Bishop. Maybe once this legislation completes its passage, the island will get a Bishop, or if Legco vote the legislation through, maybe the role of Bishop of Sodor and Man become a distant memory? 

No ill effects so far.

[Thomas Dalby]

4 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

 

The truth is that this is just virtue-signalling, both from Hooper and most of those who supported it. 

People can accuse anyone they disagree with of “virtue-signalling” but if it is intended to imply that the views are not genuinely held I would be surprised, as it is not a surefire vote winner in most constituencies. I find the arguments of those voting to abolish the Bishop’s vote rather more rational than most of the arguments to retain it, which tend more towards populism, emotion and sentimental waffle - eg Julie Edge saying that the Bishop “represents all faiths”.

[Two-lane]

If you wish to know how rational you are, take a look at how your views align with those of other people.

For example, does your view of reality align with that of the flat-earthers?

How many governments have, by law, religious people of a specific religion as part of the legislature?

 

 

[Roger Mexico]

11 minutes ago, Thomas Dalby said:

People can accuse anyone they disagree with of “virtue-signalling” but if it is intended to imply that the views are not genuinely held I would be surprised, as it is not a surefire vote winner in most constituencies. I find the arguments of those voting to abolish the Bishop’s vote rather more rational than most of the arguments to retain it, which tend more towards populism, emotion and sentimental waffle - eg Julie Edge saying that the Bishop “represents all faiths”.

Virtue-signalling isn't about whether views are 'genuine' or not but whether the activity is effective towards whatever ends are supposed to be intended.  Removing the vote of the Bishop while keeping those of the other unelected eight, just shows there's no real commitment to democracy. 

One of the disappointments of the 'reformed' LegCo is that they seem to act as even more of a block vote for CoMin than it did when it was the Home of Rest for Retired MHKs and you can't help feeling that Hooper was motivated as much by the previous Bishop having backed Callister against the DHSC bureaucrats as anything else.  But then petty spite is pretty much all the DHSC has as a job these days.

[Thomas Dalby]

44 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Virtue-signalling isn't about whether views are 'genuine' or not but whether the activity is effective towards whatever ends are supposed to be intended.  Removing the vote of the Bishop while keeping those of the other unelected eight, just shows there's no real commitment to democracy. 

One of the disappointments of the 'reformed' LegCo is that they seem to act as even more of a block vote for CoMin than it did when it was the Home of Rest for Retired MHKs and you can't help feeling that Hooper was motivated as much by the previous Bishop having backed Callister against the DHSC bureaucrats as anything else.  But then petty spite is pretty much all the DHSC has as a job these days.

From what I’ve seen of Hooper I would be surprised if he wouldn’t be in favour of more radical constitutional change if he felt it had a chance of succeeding - it might even be possible that he wants to try and effect a change which he feels can be done without too much time and political capital being spent on it. But in any case I don’t understand why the Bishop’s vote can’t be considered as a question on its own terms without having to be linked to other reform of Comin, or having a directly elected Chief Minister or whatever it is that people always throw in - it raises a very distinct question in its own right. A lot of the opposition to abolishing the Bishop’s vote just looks like whataboutery.

[Two-lane]

These are the religious extremists (in my opinion) who want religion (of a certain type)  to be a mandatory part of Government:

Mr Callister, Mr Cannan, Mrs Christian, Ms Edge, Mr Glover,
Ms Lord-Brennan, Mr Moorhouse, Mr Smith, Mr Thomas, Mr Wannenburgh

[code99]

Anyone representing a ‘faith’ (someone who is driven by personal biases) must surely become somewhat conflicted when participating in a decision-making process that is based on certain facts, e.g., the Assisted Dying Bill. Even if a Bishop is sincere and well-meaning person, their participation in the Legislative Council is an old tradition with the ‘use by date’ is well and truly expired.

The bigger problem is that our appointed Legislative Council is little more than a pathetic appendage to Government, and is not a ‘check on’ Government. Given that the CM Cannan has voted against the change, the MLCs are likely to derail any changes that they perceive as a challenge.

Jeebus, the next thing plebs will demand is to democratically elect the CM and the LC!