Happier diner Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 6 hours ago, The Duck of Atholl said: Some English Universities do treat IOM students as international students.IIRC Cambridge do The Govt won't fund higher degrees. I imagine that your daughter's friend will have received assistance for her undergraduate degree but funding usually stops thereafter. The government do fund higher degrees. Masters/PHD etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Santon Old School is the Professional Development Centre for teachers and the like[1]. Similarly Port Erin Police Station is used for Home Affairs staff, police and so on. For all I know every Department has its own, probably equally inconvenient to get to for many people. You'd think that if some of these courses were so helpful to professional development, that they would only be too pleased to offer them for a price to outside business. But apparently not. [1] On one of the election programmes Donald Gelling was bitterly remarking that they closed the school down on the grounds they couldn't afford the repairs and then the civil servants took it over and refitted it to the highest standards for themselves. Following on from your footnote, the DOI sent workmen to the former Ballacloan School. I asked to be told that they were doing repairs, to the roof as it was pissing in water. It’s ironic as it’s down for demolition. Still it keeps people in work, but not necessarily doing the right jobs. Out of interest, do the DOI have their own College or Centre of Excellence, and if so, where is it? I can only guess it’s a well kitted out and luxurious building, in style to their big budget and ego. I bet that the Starship Enterprise has got in on the act too, somewhere big enough to accommodate Rob Callister’s ego, and scoreboard. Edited October 11, 2021 by 2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFairfax Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 6 hours ago, The Duck of Atholl said: IIRC Cambridge do Not going forward, IoM students now pay same 9.2K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Happier diner said: The government do fund higher degrees. Masters/PHD etc. I was wondering about that as they certainly paid my master's fees - albeit 40 years ago...! (If I recall correctly, when I asked about funding for a master's I was told that Manx students had an allocation of up to four years of HE funding available to them, and that as I had fully repaid the post-grad course I'd started but dropped out of, I still had 12 months of funding left over!) Just to satisfy my own curiosity, did the Isle of Man simply follow the UK lead when maintenance grants were dumped and student loans and student tuition fees were introduced, or did they do their own thing? It seems a pity that they couldn't come up with a fairer system. I don't agree with a lot of current views about the younger generation having generally greater disadvantages than previous generations (like mine), but I do think they've been well and truly done over when it comes to the funding of higher education - even though many of them may never pay their student loans back. Edited October 11, 2021 by Ghost Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Galen said: ... At the end of the day it has to be excepted that education establishments are businesses first and foremost, the education of its customers (ie students) being secondary to the organisations financial well-being and future. But it shouldn't be accepted. What other business or industry relies on a model where fourth-rate providers* can market a fourth-rate product* yet charge the same price as the very best? It's utter bollocks based on some delusion that Tony Blair had about getting at least 50% of school leavers into university. Higher education should never have been turned into a business. HEIs are so desperate attracting money - especially from overseas students - that they completely disregard the needs of domestic students. My (Manx) nephew attended our local university (which for some reason I cannot understand has quite a respectable academic reputation) and his girlfriend was doing a business studies degree or something. She constantly complained that the classes were enormous and that because over half the students were from overseas with both a poor command of english and a poor knowledge base, they spent most of the first year of her degree going over stuff that almost all the UK students already understood. HE in the UK is in a poor state and if, as I presume, most Manx students who go onto HE go to UK universities, you all ought to be concerned. (I know I rubbished in another thread the idea of the IoM establishing a "proper" university, but maybe it ain't such a daft idea after all... ) *Whether or not a provider is first or fourth-rate depends on the quality of it's staff and teaching and research, not necessarily on whether it's an established university or a former polytechnic. Either could be excellent or utter crap. Similary, the quality of the product depends upon how it is taught, not necessarily on what is taught. Art history is just as valid a degree as mathematics. And I'd argue that in these days of increasingly fake news, an academically rigorous media studies degree might be a valuable life qualification... Edited October 11, 2021 by Ghost Ship 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 13 hours ago, Ghost Ship said: Manx students don't pay a higher level of fees than UK students at "conventional" universities, do they - so why is the OU different? (I know there was a comment at the start of this thread - many years ago - that the UK govt subsidises UK students at the OU to a greater extent than they do at other universities, but is that the reason?). The Scottish Welsh and Northern Irish devolved governments do indeed contribute to funding the OU as well as their students. In England the government no longer funds the OU and as such the fees for English students are much higher, I believe they're the same as Manx Students are charged, so six or seven times higher. However, English students do have the benefit of a non means tested student loan which has no age limit. They can also use the OUBSA's scheme for paying their fees monthly. They are also able to apply for generous bursaries if they intend to teach. None of these options are available to Manx students. Fees must be paid in full and upfront, the DESC then decide whether they are going to give you a grant or not (always the latter in my experience), this generally takes them about four months. There are many people who, even if lucky enough to be awarded a grant, simply couldn't afford to stump up thousand of pounds in fees months in advance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: ... However, English students do have the benefit of a non means tested student loan which has no age limit. ... None of these options are available to Manx students. Fees must be paid in full and upfront, the DESC then decide whether they are going to give you a grant or not (always the latter in my experience)... There are many people who, even if lucky enough to be awarded a grant, simply couldn't afford to stump up thousand of pounds in fees months in advance. I've just picked myself up off the floor... You are telling me that the IoM has no student loan scheme and that Manx students have to pay their fees up front, but that the govt (out of the goodness of its heart 😐) might - just might! - deign to give a grant towards fees many months later? How can any Manx students afford to go to university? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 8:38 PM, James Blonde said: Kind of depends if your degree would be useful to us as an island. If you're studying to be a medical doctor or dentist then it should all be paid for you. If you're studying media studies, psychology or history then jog on. It's harsh but the economy is on it's arse so we shouldn't be funding something just because someone wants a degree. Having been a manager in a NHS mental health trust for over 20 years and having read some of the health related threads on here, I'd suggest the Isle of Man govt and Manx economy could do a lot worse than investing in some undergraduate psychology degrees and clinical psychology doctorates. That's assuming the IoM wants to do the sensible thing and encourage clinical psychologists rather than scaring them away... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said: Having been a manager in a NHS mental health trust for over 20 years and having read some of the health related threads on here, I'd suggest the Isle of Man govt and Manx economy could do a lot worse than investing in some undergraduate psychology degrees and clinical psychology doctorates. That's assuming the IoM wants to do the sensible thing and encourage clinical psychologists rather than scaring them away... That's spot on. That's exactly the sort of thinking we need. De-fund art and media studies, use the money to fund those kind of courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, Ghost Ship said: I've just picked myself up off the floor... You are telling me that the IoM has no student loan scheme and that Manx students have to pay their fees up front, but that the govt (out of the goodness of its heart 😐) might - just might! - deign to give a grant towards fees many months later? How can any Manx students afford to go to university? He's talking about OU students, so they don't "go" to uni. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, James Blonde said: That's spot on. That's exactly the sort of thinking we need. De-fund art and media studies, use the money to fund those kind of courses. But you said you didn't want to fund psychology courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Declan said: He's talking about OU students, so they don't "go" to uni. Brain fade. I tend to get a bit ranty on the issue of student funding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Blonde Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Ghost Ship said: But you said you didn't want to fund psychology courses. I want us to fund courses that are essential and have a quantitative benefit to our island community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman34 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 19 minutes ago, James Blonde said: I want us to fund courses that are essential and have a quantitative benefit to our island community. Still banging the Gradgrind drum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Johnson Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Ghost Ship said: Brain fade. I tend to get a bit ranty on the issue of student funding... But there are no loans, or what you would call proper loans for IOM students going to do a normal 3 year degree either. They get a once a year £2.5k "loan" which covers their fees each year but other than that ---NOTHING! How do they feed themselves? How do they pay for halls/ accommodation? It is either they pay themselves unlikely, or their parents stump up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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