Islam In The Isle Of Man

[Gilly G. Ossenfeffer]

I would wonder how much I can rely relate to someone who is so detached from reality

Pots & Kettles!

 

LDV contributes interesting and well-made points in this debate for several pages, and that's all you can think of to comment?

[censorship]

I am not talking about whether people SHOULD be free to believe what they want.

Nobody can really stop anyone believing what they want anyway.

Well, first of all your comment was about people believing in Santa, not religion.

Secondly, 'nobody can really stop anyone believing what they want anyway'. How defeatist!

Overall it matters because you don't want to see other people in society live their life or think differently based on ignorance and superstition. It matters to me what other people think.

That is a terrible comment, one of the worst you have ever posted. Seriously, when did you become the thought police? "you don't want to see other people in society live their life or think differently"

You don't want people to think differently?

[manshimajin]

Muslims created a golden era of scientific knowledge and understanding. People were sent from different countries to Islamic Spain to learn science from the Muslims, so clearly Islam does not prevent people from thinking otherwise we would all have been in the dark ages. But in reality only the christians were in the dark ages, because of christianity and the Muslims bailed them out by sharing their knowledge. The reason the Muslim countries are in such a bad state these days is because of british colonialism, puppet governments and infiltration into the Muslim societies to spread corruption and divide the people. Oh and centuries of war, sanctions and external and internal corruption. But I guess that's the thanks Muslims get for teaching the christians algebra, biology, cosmology, medicine, navigation... etc. for a complete list; read a history book. Christians have been good at taking every inch of what they can get without a second thought for human life. Just look at what they did to the native americans, south Americans, Australians etc etc.

There have been many golden ages in science and learning stretching back to Babylon. There is no doubt that the era of Moslem colonial expansion into Spain brought many benefits to Moslems, Christians and Jews in terms of medicine, science, mathematics architecure and in some places tolerance. Both Moslems and Christians also learned much from the knowledge that spread from China along the Silk Road. The Moslems themselves got much of their learning from study of the works of the Greeks and Romans. So mankind's knowledge is continuously powered by the ongoing exchanges of knowledge - with everyone learning from each other and nobody having a monopoly of wisdom.

 

As to the effects of British Imperialism in the Middle East did this not find a fertile ground in which to flourish because of the corrupt rule of that area by the Turks who created strife and dissension amongst their fellow Moslems for their own imperial ends?

 

I have commented seperately above on the seeming ability of all religions to behave with enormous cruelty both to their own and to non-believers. Whilst what you say does apply to Christianity across the ages, the various sects of the Moslem faith seem to have been willing to behave with gross intolerance to one another and to others so maybe religious people need to be careful 'who casts the first stone' as none seem to be entirely free of some guilt.

 

Could you comment perhaps on why there is so much strife between the various Moslem sects; why the ahmaddiya are persecuted and murdered by their fellow Moslems; why Indonesia flouts its duties to fellow Moslems under the Berne Convention by onward-shipping Afghan refugees to Australia; or why a number of Middle eastern States have failed to implement in full the global UN Declaration of Human Rights?

 

It seems to me that often the practioners of the various world religions fall very far short of the true beliefs of the religions they espouse.

 

PS: spending much of my time in County Cork we have a sad history of Moslem pirates from North Africa who raided the coastal towns to kill and to haul men, women and children off into slavery. The same also happened in Cornwall. To slightly modify your own words IOM Muslim "Those particular Moslems have been good at taking every inch of what they can get without a second thought for human life".

[Bobbie Bobster]

I personally have enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Islam is true and that God exists.

The argument goes like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

 

"But," says Man, "IOM_Muslim's evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that God exists is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED."

 

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn’t thought of that," and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

 

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

 

Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo’s kidneys, but that didn’t stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, Well That about Wraps It Up for God.

 

— With apologies to Douglas Adams

[Evil Goblin]

GGO - some of us really have little interest in conducting any debate on matters religious with people who, by and large, do not "know their arse from a hole in the ground" on such matters. As for Pots & Kettles - a perfectly fair remark, given LDV's own remoteness from reality.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

That is a terrible comment, one of the worst you have ever posted. Seriously, when did you become the thought police? "you don't want to see other people in society live their life or think differently"

You don't want people to think differently?

You probably find it such a terrible comment but you completely misunderstand. Why a presumption that I am advocating punishment? I am talking more about what I would like to see in society and what education and criticism can be used for.

 

Why do you think it is so terrible a thing to want others in society to be rid of bad ideas and concepts? Do you think that it is not concerning that there are people with racist ideas and thinking due to their ignorance? Do you not think that removing this ignorance is a good thing?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

GGO - some of us really have little interest in conducting any debate on matters religious with people who, by and large, do not "know their arse from a hole in the ground" on such matters. As for Pots & Kettles - a perfectly fair remark, given LDV's own remoteness from reality.

You have little interest because you have little chance of conducting a well thought out argument on many topics. You'd have given a better show than to hurl insults if you actually thought you were right.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I am not talking about whether people SHOULD be free to believe what they want.

Nobody can really stop anyone believing what they want anyway.

Well, first of all your comment was about people believing in Santa, not religion.

I was given an analogy with another irrational belief.

[IOM_Muslim]

well it is spoken in the qoran that allah was a slave of jesus so there you go muslims and christians should just get on

 

Lmao. Reference please.

[IOM_Muslim]

Overall it matters because you don't want to see other people in society live their life or think differently based on ignorance and superstition. It matters to me what other people think.

That is a terrible comment, one of the worst you have ever posted. Seriously, when did you become the thought police? "you don't want to see other people in society live their life or think differently"

You don't want people to think differently?

 

 

Qur'an 109:

Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship.

Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.

Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.

Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.

For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

[Bananaman]

 

 

Qur'an 109:

Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship.

Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.

Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.

Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.

For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

 

 

Sadly that's all Islam will ever be. My way or the highway attitude hey!

 

Religion of peace? My arse it is!

[pongo]

Sadly that's all Islam will ever be. My way or the highway attitude hey!

 

Religion of peace? My arse it is!

 

Christianity and Judaism can be just as uncompromising and dumb!

 

The old testament god is often basically vengeful and angry. Often he more or less demands to be worshiped.

 

And the angry version of the god turns up again in the Christian bible after the so called gospels.

 

Christianity, Islam - it's all the same stuff. And you can find snippets and quotes to support more or less any point of view.

[IOM_Muslim]

Sadly that's all Islam will ever be. My way or the highway attitude hey!

 

Religion of peace? My arse it is!

 

I think you will find that's the attitude of many religions. Also Islam is a religion of peace; just because it also gives rulings regarding war, that doesn't mean it doesn't promote peace. It covers all aspects of life; including war.

I hope you aren't just judging the teachings of Islam by the actions of some extremists.

[Pat Ayres]

Oh yes. lacking any evidence of charitable donations or works by Muslims among the general population, I'm afraid that's all I've got to go on.

[Bananaman]

Christianity and Judaism can be just as uncompromising and dumb!

 

And equally annoying too!