Islam In The Isle Of Man

[pongo]

at least they don't go door to door

[IOM_Muslim]

Oh yes. lacking any evidence of charitable donations or works by Muslims among the general population, I'm afraid that's all I've got to go on.

 

Not really, you could try reading the Qur'an.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It seems to me that often the practioners of the various world religions fall very far short of the true beliefs of the religions they espouse.

In a lot of ways that is a good thing. It would be a very creepy world if the majority really took seriously the existence of the Christian or Muslim God, for example. Or if they adhered doggedly to the teachings in those ancient books.

[Gladys]

I would wonder how much I can rely relate to someone who is so detached from reality

Pots & Kettles!

 

LDV contributes interesting and well-made points in this debate for several pages, and that's all you can think of to comment?

Whereas, you, of course, have made a major contribution to this thread. Before you bark off other contributors, look at your own contribution, or would you like to delete that as well?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Qur'an 109:

Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship.

Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.

Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.

Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.

For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

I don't have a religion. And simply quoting from the Qu'ran does not lend weight or

 

I think you will find that's the attitude of many religions. Also Islam is a religion of peace; just because it also gives rulings regarding war, that doesn't mean it doesn't promote peace. It covers all aspects of life; including war.

I hope you aren't just judging the teachings of Islam by the actions of some extremists.

I think we have to take the actions of all Muslims as indicative of how Islam's adherents use it and are influenced by it. Same with other religions. What we do NOT do it to exclude the 'extremists' as just mad people who don't understand.

[IOM_Muslim]

I think we have to take the actions of all Muslims as indicative of how Islam's adherents use it and are influenced by it. Same with other religions. What we do NOT do it to exclude the 'extremists' as just mad people who don't understand.

 

The actions of all Muslims? Well I can tell you the vast majority of Muslims aren't out killing people or causing violence. Just because the news chooses to focus on the negative, that doesn't mean that they are showing the majority. Islam teaches peace and tolerance and that is what most Muslims practice. Around 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and only a few hundred or, at most, a few thousand, of them are committing illegal violent acts (not including wartime combat). Taking into account the amount of war and oppression waged against them and their countries daily, the number surprisingly low. There are black sheep in all walks of life. Just because a small group of people commit certain acts that doesn't mean they are right or that they have been influenced that way because the religion is bad. Nobody calls christianity a white supremist religion just because the KKK get their support from the bible.

 

You don't judge a religion by its followers. If you want to study what a religion teaches then you study the religion itself, NOT the people who follow it.

[gazza]

 

An a different note, I love Christian fundies. I can't tell if it is serious or fully tongue in cheek. Someone please clear this up for me?

 

thats some messed up ppl there

[Bananaman]

Islam teaches peace and tolerance and that is what most Muslims practice.

 

Show me!

 

Go on, give me just one example.

 

If you mention free education in a madrassa = fail

 

ETA - I hate all bloody religion, no more so than the bloody pious sodding Catholic church where any pleasure is a sin, therefore feel guilty about having a nice day out!

 

Wankers the lot of them!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think we have to take the actions of all Muslims as indicative of how Islam's adherents use it and are influenced by it. Same with other religions. What we do NOT do it to exclude the 'extremists' as just mad people who don't understand.

 

The actions of all Muslims? Well I can tell you the vast majority of Muslims aren't out killing people or causing violence. Just because the news chooses to focus on the negative, that doesn't mean that they are showing the majority. Islam teaches peace and tolerance and that is what most Muslims practice. Around 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and only a few hundred or, at most, a few thousand, of them are committing illegal violent acts (not including wartime combat). Taking into account the amount of war and oppression waged against them and their countries daily, the number surprisingly low. There are black sheep in all walks of life. Just because a small group of people commit certain acts that doesn't mean they are right or that they have been influenced that way because the religion is bad. Nobody calls christianity a white supremist religion just because the KKK get their support from the bible.

 

You don't judge a religion by its followers. If you want to study what a religion teaches then you study the religion itself, NOT the people who follow it.

I know the vast majority have not been out killing or causing violence. Of course they haven't. But it is necessary to look at the effect that religion has on people, in respect of how they are motivated by religion to conduct certain acts or behave in particular ways. This is not just limited to looking at the action of terrorists, but also looking at the role of Muslim clerics, the government leaders in theocracies, the effect that religion has on people in judging what is moral or not, etc.

Islam may teach tolerance, but that does not mean tolerance comes with Islam. The very idea that one's beliefs are true is itself reason why Islam (and other religions) are so divisive.

[IOM_Muslim]

Show me!

 

Go on, give me just one example.

 

Here are 3 examples:

 

Qur'an 11:85:

And O my people, give full measure and weight in justice and do not deprive the people of their due and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption.

 

Qur'an 4:36:

Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.

 

Qur'an 2:109:

Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves [even] after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.

[Bananaman]

 

pointless words

 

I don't need stupid quotes from that pointless story book.

 

You didn't get what I asked for - show me an example of any Islamic charity that is secular in their intentions, you know for the good of humanity and all that twaddle.

 

Yes I know the Sally Ann can get a bit bolshy with their jingoistic tambourine bashing, so answer my request before having a pop at anything else.

[IOM_Muslim]

Islam may teach tolerance, but that does not mean tolerance comes with Islam.

If a person doesn't follow Islam properly then that person is at fault. if Islam teaches tolerance, peace etc. and a person does the opposite, you don't say Islam is bad, you say that person is bad. Just because he is a Muslim and he does something bad, that doesn't mean Islam is responsible for his action.

 

The very idea that one's beliefs are true is itself reason why Islam (and other religions) are so divisive.

"The very idea that one's beliefs are true (ie atheism) is itself reason why Islam (and other religions) are so divisive." Yeah, you are included in that example too. Your belief, or lack thereof, is just another divide among the varying beliefs in the world. Religious people mix together. Muslim countries don't forbid people of other religions to live there or attend their religious buildings there. I have christian friends, atheist friends, Muslim friends, hindu friends, satanist friends, deist friends. Our religions don't get in the way. If you were so against division you would accept people for what they believe and not spend so much time speaking out against them.

[IOM_Muslim]

Islam teaches peace and tolerance and that is what most Muslims practice.

 

Show me!

 

Go on, give me just one example.

 

If you mention free education in a madrassa = fail

 

ETA - I hate all bloody religion, no more so than the bloody pious sodding Catholic church where any pleasure is a sin, therefore feel guilty about having a nice day out!

 

Wankers the lot of them!

I said Islam teaches peace and tolerance. You said show me. I showed you. I gave you what you requested.

 

pointless words

 

I don't need stupid quotes from that pointless story book.

 

You didn't get what I asked for - show me an example of any Islamic charity that is secular in their intentions, you know for the good of humanity and all that twaddle.

 

Yes I know the Sally Ann can get a bit bolshy with their jingoistic tambourine bashing, so answer my request before having a pop at anything else.

At no point did you ask for "any Islamic charity that is secular in their intentions."

 

Here is an example of what you have just asked for:

 

Ummah Welfare Trust.

 

http://www.uwt.org/site/

[Bananaman]

Here is an example of what you have just asked for:

 

Ummah Welfare Trust.

 

 

No it isn't - a direct quote from their website

 

The Prophet (peace be upon him) also emphasised the importance of providing education stating, 'The best amongst you is the one who learns the Quran and teaches it.' (al-Bukhari, at-Tirmidhi)

Price for Quran Distribution

The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the final word from Allah.

 

What's all that Peace be upon him shite about? I've never really got that. Explain that one to mate. I've nothing against people who need religion at all. Happily for me I'm glad I don't. What do Muslims say as an alternative to "JESUS! you scared the shit out of me then you bastid!" or even more rarely "Oh god oh god oh yes oh fucking Jesus H bloody Christ Yes Oooohhhh that's good ohh oh oh oooh I love you ohh yes god, now clean yourself up love. Star Trek is on in a minute"

 

I don't take you or any religion at all seriously but if you're willing to play the game with out having to quote from your stupid bo(ll)o©k of pointless quotes, I'm happy to play along too.

 

Yayyyy!

[IOM_Muslim]

No it isn't - a direct quote from their website

You didn't ask for a direct quote. If you want one, you can easily find one from the site.

 

What's all that Peace be upon him ... about?

We say 'peace be upon him' because we wish peace on the prophets. We also say peace to each other; specifically when greeting. As for the rest of the stuff you said, I don't really talk like that and I would rather not have a discussion if that's the way you are going to talk.