Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[pongo]

I like Bob Crow. I like his whole stance and how he keeps it simple and sticks to his guns. In that Granada video on ManxTube, the conversation between the union people and the MHK Gawne - well they all come across rather well. Including Mr Gawne who is obviously in a difficult position but who has the decency to at least try to listen to them. I like how Bob Crowe has a single straight perspective - which is about representing the people he is paid to represent. There should be more of that - even if we do not always agree with the POV. I like people with a definite political perspective.

 

And they've got a point if the Mezeron people really are on ultra low wages. That doesn't mean that the UA is a good thing. The UA increasingly looks like an out of date stitch-up. Not good for the workers and not good for the IOM (because it seems to have been about making a deal which could be traded for cash). There were a few deals put in place around the time of the UA which were quite odd TBH.

 

ETA: if the wages thing is true then the IMO/UN and the EU maybe need to be looking at introducing minimum wages as a part of international shipping regulations.

[manshimajin]

Of course, you don't know what the SP have, or haven't done. Apart from the initial fluster from the CEO, the SP have been quite quiet on the matter really. So it is all uneducated guesswork to 'assume' that they are doing nothing.

 

I would be very surprised indeed, if the first item on your list hasn't been done, in some detail with the 'loyal' freight customers. Likwise, Mezeron cannot expect any loyalty from the likes of Tesco, so a cheaper rate may see them back with the SP, and maybe even another road haulage operator.

Your right...none of us do...except MW making a lot of rather silly comments and now apparently, so we hear on the video, exchanging letters with Phil Gawne.

 

If they are doing something constructive then all I can say is "thank goodness" - action speaks louder than words.

[b4mbi]

i dont see it as being less inefficinet, all the major ports in the world use this approce to fright,

errr...yes they do...and then again some places have somewhat less sophisticated arrangements:

 

hardly comparable vessel sizes tho!! looks like around a 1800TEU vessel compared to 266TEU vessel!!!! of course you need different gantries / cranes!

[theambo]

I like Bob Crow. I like his whole stance and how he keeps it simple and sticks to his guns. In that Granada video on ManxTube, the conversation between the union people and the MHK Gawne - well they all come across rather well. Including Mr Gawne who is obviously in a difficult position but who has the decency to at least try to listen to them. I like how Bob Crowe has a single straight perspective - which is about representing the people he is paid to represent. There should be more of that - even if we do not always agree with the POV. I like people with a definite political perspective.

 

And they've got a point if the Mezeron people really are on ultra low wages. That doesn't mean that the UA is a good thing. The UA increasingly looks like an out of date stitch-up. Not good for the workers and not good for the IOM (because it seems to have been about making a deal which could be traded for cash). There were a few deals put in place around the time of the UA which were quite odd TBH.

 

ETA: if the wages thing is true then the IMO/UN and the EU maybe need to be looking at introducing minimum wages as a part of international shipping regulations.

 

 

I like Bob Crow too, pretending to be a socialist man of the people whilst raking in £100k+ with a grace and favour home. Phil Gawne stood up well in that clip, the only "manx" accent I could discern amoungst the union bully boys. As others have pointed out, they should be lobbying the Steam Packet, its their fuck up for becoming complacent. Can anyone confirm if he showed solidarity by arriving on the Ben ? I'm sure the SP Chairman Mr Quayle will now be earning his pennies leaning on his contacts from his time as Tynwald Clerk.

[gazza]

In that Granada video on ManxTube, the conversation between the union people and the MHK Gawne - well they all come across rather well. Including Mr Gawne who is obviously in a difficult position but who has the decency to at least try to listen to them. I like how Bob Crowe has a single straight perspective - which is about representing the people he is paid to represent. There should be more of that - even if we do not always agree with the POV. I like people with a definite political perspective.

 

 

I think they came across as a set of heavy yobs. That can only see to blame the gov for whats happined not that the SP have fooked up.

i think to be fair gawne handled them was vary good,

 

and if there point is to be made, then as of today, all non manx staff who are employed on the boats should be sacked,

only manx people should be allowed to work on the boats and in the port on the island.

 

Thats what they seam to be asking for.

[duffus]

I've been more than intrigued by the scenario that we now find ourselves in with Mezeron opening up their daily service, and as a local obviously have concerns about how it may affect me and my pocket going forward as obviously no matter what the majority of people say, those of us living on the Island are likely to pay more than anyone else going forward for any mistakes made now.

 

I also appreciate that the staff at the Steam Packet have concerns over their jobs, and as someone who works for a company that has dealt with redundancies in the last couple of years, have sympathy for them - they are ultimately at risk due to the burden of debt placed on them by the parent company structure. That said, whether the service is provided by the IOMSP, Mezeron, Mr Whipp or A N Other, our government have a duty to ensure that a service is in place to serve the nation and I do not believe that we would be without some form of service for more than a couple of days - with the government holding the trump card for competing operators (of which I'm sure there would be more than one) as the UA is golden (provided you have good lawyers and/or a bod with good lateral thinking).

 

Having worked for various shipping companies on the Island, I have an insight into the way they work, however my financial and csp experience are minimal so corporate entities are beyond me and god forbid Barry replies to me as I don't have the time to start trawling the internet to check up on chartering mumbo jumbo (sorry Barry but you go on more than me!).

 

In my simplistic world, we now have competition for the freight business coming into the Island and not many people seem to think this is a bad thing. The IOMSP are saying freight underwrites the cost of passengers, something they stated in the papers earlier in 2010 when Mezeron started reguarly calling into Douglas - I might be an idiot, but did think that the IOMSP timed this press release with the same kind of skill as if the Ukrainian Tourist Board had paid for a massive tourism campaign on the back of Chernobyl!

 

Could a viable passenger service be maintained without direct subsidy from the government? That is the big question, and without accurate figures, we are all guessing. My feeling is though that a private company with a government guarantee (not a guaranteed subsidy) with opt outs for failure to provide minimum services levels/punctuality is most likely to give the best outcome for the residents and visitors as a whole. Can the IOMSP provide this service - without doubt, but maybe not with the current vessels and debt levels they are operating with. If not the IOMSP, then perhaps the IOMG can use the linkspan access to ensure that whoever takes over the passenger services makes a commitment to be like Shoprite and be 'Manx To The Max', thereby minimising the unemployment that would be created by the failure of the IOMSP.

 

Before anybody pro IOMSP berates me, my father worked for the Steam Packet for a number of years and I have fond memories of his time there.

 

Also having taken a quick look at Mezeron's owners website, they don't strike me as a company that are a here today gone tomorrow kind of operation - they seem to be a longstanding shipping operation to me.

[acorn]

A considerable majority of employers, especially fairly large employers, have one thing in mind, profit certainly not the improved welfare of it's staff.

 

What concessions to they expect to obtain from a largely foreign company servicing £200m of debt? Its not like they have a lot of room to improve conditions or pay amongst servicing all that debt.

 

 

Did I mention anything about winning concessions now?

 

The workers are fighting for their livelihoods, of course there's going to be nothing from a foreign owned company without the slightest interest in the Isle of Man.

 

The point I was trying to make was that the workers are quite entitled to seek to protect themselves as best they can, the current predicament is not of their making. Reading some of the anti union comment from the nasty minded rightards on here beggars belief. Still this is the land of tax dodgers and their associated itinerant parasites, nothing civilised and decent should be expected, silly me.

 

Edited to add there's no way I support the current SP or, for that matter, the equally exploitative Dohle operation. I just have concern for the bad fortune of my innocent fellow humanity. Yet another alien concept, for tax dodgers and their parasites.

Edited November 24, 2010 by acorn

[P.K.]

Could a viable passenger service be maintained without direct subsidy from the government? That is the big question, and without accurate figures, we are all guessing. My feeling is though that a private company with a government guarantee (not a guaranteed subsidy) with opt outs for failure to provide minimum services levels/punctuality is most likely to give the best outcome for the residents and visitors as a whole. Can the IOMSP provide this service - without doubt, but maybe not with the current vessels and debt levels they are operating with. If not the IOMSP, then perhaps the IOMG can use the linkspan access to ensure that whoever takes over the passenger services makes a commitment to be like Shoprite and be 'Manx To The Max', thereby minimising the unemployment that would be created by the failure of the IOMSP.

 

Any sniff of a Gov subsidy will immediately polarise the travelling population. Between those who use the SP a lot, for work let's say, and those who usually prop up the Ronaldsway overspend. In fact, I would bet the Irish bailout that it is already happening on here! Those who bleat "Let the SP suffer" will be the air travellers and those looking for SP alternatives will be the rest.

 

The SP attitude to pax has always been "We're going anyway, you can come along as well if you like..." which tends to bear out that freight is the reason for the level of service. So what are the SP currently doing about it? Well, no answer was the stern reply...

[manshimajin]

hardly comparable vessel sizes tho!! looks like around a 1800TEU vessel compared to 266TEU vessel!!!! of course you need different gantries / cranes!

No of course not - but I was responding to a general comment that lift on lift off container traffic is normal at major ports around the world and therefore must be as efficient as RoRo. No doubt it is in the first type of situation because of the infrastructure not only for lifting but also for marshalling containers and the capacity to handle large ships and large container volumes backed up by road/rail links too. But as you say the Mezeron operation is hardly comparable which is why I posted the two along side one another.

 

A mobile crane on a narrow pier lifting off containers is probably not as efficient as a RoRo ship using a linkspan backed by a large marshalling area and multiple tracor units in the same harbour.

 

My thought was that surely IOMSPC should be in there maximising its freight handling advantage not grumbling about Mezeron. I find it strange that MW didn't say - "competition is great because it makes us maximise our efficiencies an effectiveness in the interest of both our customers and our owners".

 

From experience the arrival of competition can be a big motivator - but at the moment in this case it seems to have had the opposite effect - just lsten to that video!

Edited November 24, 2010 by manshimajin

[b4mbi]

No of course not - but I was responding to a general comment that lift on lift off container traffic is normal at major ports around the world and therefore must be as efficient as RoRo. No doubt it is in the first type of situation because of the infrastructure not only for lifting but also for marshalling containers and the capacity to handle large ships and large container volumes backed up by road/rail links too. But as you say the Mezeron operation is hardly comparable which is why I posted the two along side one another.

 

A mobile crane on a narrow pier lifting off containers is probably not as efficient as a RoRo ship using a linkspan backed by a large marshalling area and multiple tracor units in the same harbour.

 

My thought was that surely IOMSPC should be in there maximising its freight handling advantage not grumbling about Mezeron. I find it strange that MW didn't say - "competition is great because it makes us maximise our efficiencies an effectiveness in the interest of both our customers and our owners".

 

From experience the arrival of competition can be a big motivator - but at the moment in this case it seems to have had the opposite effect - just lsten to that video!

 

Yes agreed, for the current size of operations required by the Isle of Man, you have to think that Ro-Ro is the more efficient method, but then again, don't know what crane/ gantries are used to load the Mezeron vessels in Liverpool...

 

Exactly, IOMSPC managment have been caught with their pants down and don't seem to be making great moves (at least in public) to pull them up.

Edited November 24, 2010 by b4mbi

[manxman8180]

They don't have to do anything in 'public', and why would they?

 

Their main 'weapon' will be to reduce rates for freight with their larger 'loyal' customers and perhaps open up the opportunity for someone else to compete for Tesco et al. I would expect all of that to be done behind closed doors.

 

And we are all guessing at the actual 'loss' of freight as I have travelled recently and seen Tesco trailers on the BMC. It has hurt them, obviously, but it is way too soon, perhaps years too early, to assume that the company is fatally injured.

 

The SP are still better placed. They could reduce rates by a massive percentage for 6 months and that could be enough to squeeze out another daily operator.

[ThankU]

Just listened to an interview on MR stating that the SP could legally reduce sailings by 50% under the user agreement, which will only result to job loses and increased fare o the public as the % of the cheaper rate tickets will be taken up.

[Tugger]

Call his fucking bluff, I say

[Cambon]

Just listened to an interview on MR stating that the SP could legally reduce sailings by 50% under the user agreement, which will only result to job loses and increased fare o the public as the % of the cheaper rate tickets will be taken up.

 

So jobs leave SP and go to Mezzeron. SP still sabre rattling?

[manshimajin]

They don't have to do anything in 'public', and why would they?

 

Their main 'weapon' will be to reduce rates for freight with their larger 'loyal' customers and perhaps open up the opportunity for someone else to compete for Tesco et al. I would expect all of that to be done behind closed doors.

 

And we are all guessing at the actual 'loss' of freight as I have travelled recently and seen Tesco trailers on the BMC. It has hurt them, obviously, but it is way too soon, perhaps years too early, to assume that the company is fatally injured.

Manxman what you say makes sense.

 

I think though that the reaction on this forum has stemmed from the comments that the Packet have made itself through MW which seemed to be both panicky, threatening and full of doom and gloom for the Island.

 

IMO he was 180 degrees off course in that strategy. What you say is what I think he should have done. Kept the lips firmly zipped in public and got onto dealing with his customers and their concerns pdq. Maybe he is doing it now. At least the Packet have removed his rather ill- considered blog pages from their website.