UnbelievableTekkers Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Article on IOM Today about a chap who's fiance died, but as he wasn't named on the deeds, he now was to move out of their first time buyers house. http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/i_just_want_to_stay_in_my_own_home_1_3625070 And yet the government continue to let people live in Public Sector Housing without any form of means testing. Can't help thinking he's not the one who should be being forced out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I find it somewhat strange how most people like there to be rules in place for things like this but then don't like it when the rules go against them or throw up the occasional sob story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 All sympathy to him, but it is a first time buyers house and he's not a first time buyer. The thing about him having made improvements to the house, or having helped with the bills doesn't really change much. His fiancee bought it under a scheme subsidised by public money to which he is ineligible: it would be more unfair, to others on the FTB sheme and the general public, if he were to get the house. It's not that far removed from marrying someone on disability benefits, then getting angry because those benefits don't revert to you if they pass on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Can't see it. Which page? I can see 'Cat stuck in tree', 'Wasp found in cornet' and 'Mayor wears a toupe'...but not this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Can't see it. Which page? I can see 'Cat stuck in tree', 'Wasp found in cornet' and 'Mayor wears a toupe'...but not this story. This work ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minxie Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Can't see it. Which page? I can see 'Cat stuck in tree', 'Wasp found in cornet' and 'Mayor wears a toupe'...but not this story. Published on Saturday 30 July 2011 11:45A MAN grieving after the death of his fiancée has been told he must get out of the first-time buyer home he shared with her for three years. Barry Cowley, 49, was devastated when partner Carol died two months ago. The couple had been due to marry on Valentine’s Day this year but she was too ill with cancer to go through with the ceremony. Barry moved into Carol’s home in Joseph Hall Avenue, off Johnny Watterson’s Lane, Douglas, three years ago. Carol had bought the first-time buyer property with help from government’s House Purchase Assistance Scheme. Hers was the only name on the deeds. Under government rules, no-one can be added to the deeds after a home has been bought under the scheme. The rules also say the property can’t be sold to anyone, only back to government, within the first 10 years. If the person whose name is on the deeds dies within that 10-year period, anyone left living in the house whose name was not on the agreement has to leave and the property returns to government. In the space of two months, Barry has been left without his partner and without a home. ‘We were equal partners, everything was shared, bills, everything,’ said Barry, who works for Manx Telecom. ‘Since I’ve arrived I’ve done considerable improvements.’ Barry – who did not want iomtoday to use Carol’s surname – said Carol had been in touch with advocates about her will and had also made enquiries about adding Barry to the deeds. This was when the clause to say Barry would have to leave if Carol died was discovered. ‘She hadn’t finished doing her will,’ said Barry. This means Carol’s two sons received everything and Barry nothing. Carol’s children are happy for Barry to remain in the house but their wishes hold no sway. Although being on her will would not have meant Barry could stay, it would have meant government would have had to deal with him over the issue. As it stands, he has not heard from them at all. ‘All I’m after is a bit of humanity and common sense,’ said Barry. ‘I want a rule change to allow me to buy the house. ‘I’ve lived in it for three years, it just seems mad that someone else is going to get the benefit of it and I haven’t got the chance to buy it or go into some sort of scheme. I want the right to continue here, all my memories and thoughts are here. Carol is buried in the Lawn Cemetery around the corner.’ Barry, who has owned a property before, believes people should be able to pay to add their name to the deeds if they move into a first-time buyer property with someone after the sale. ‘The government is not losing out on anything, they haven’t thought about me at all in this, they are just saying “get out”,’ said Barry. ‘How would they feel about being told to get out of their home straight after their partner died?’ Julie Egan, a 45-year-old Tower Insurance worker, is Barry’s neighbour. She has organised a petition and has been visiting first-time buyers to find out if they are aware of the situation. Julie claims no-one is and that they are infuriated and scared by the implications. She also says she has had difficulty in obtaining a copy of the terms and conditions of the HPAS and is concerned that no-one seems to be able to explain to her the definition of the term ‘disposed of’, under which this situation comes. iomtoday spoke to Chris Corlett, chief executive of the Department of Social Care, which is responsible for housing and the HPAS scheme for first-time buyers. Mr Corlett said: ‘I’m very sorry to hear of her premature death and my thoughts and condolences are with her friends and family.’ But he said the scheme was very generous to first-time buyers, and could give out up to £100,000 in assistance in some cases. He said it was a Tynwald approved scheme and Tynwald had written in stringent conditions in an effort to provide strong protection for taxpayers’ money. Mr Corlett said it was his legal duty as accounting officer to protect that money. He also said all first-time buyers receiving assistance were told about the rules that applied over the 10-year period and it was also for their advocates to ensure they understood everything about those rules at the time of the sale. Mr Corlett said not understanding or forgetting about the rules did not change the fact they existed and would be enforced. ‘We have to be mindful of the hundreds of people on the waiting list for a first-time buyer home,’ said Mr Corlett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Article on IOM Today about a chap who's fiance died, but as he wasn't named on the deeds, he now was to move out of their first time buyers house. http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/i_just_want_to_stay_in_my_own_home_1_3625070 And yet the government continue to let people live in Public Sector Housing without any form of means testing. Can't help thinking he's not the one who should be being forced out. Apparently, the same or similar can happen to married couples in the course of normal property owning let alone FTB Schemes. Reportedly, if a man owns property before being married and does not put his wife's name on the deeds consequent upon marriage and dies without leaving a will.. then the wife/widow is only entitled to a statutory minimum from the husband's estate (Not sure how much but about £240,000 springs to mind?)... Otherwise the rest is distributed to the next of kin which pecking order is itself laid out in statute..... A complication are children....They are the next of kin so there are cases where a widow is left with children (minors) and the house must be maintained for them to grow up in and the widow cannot get her statutory portion of the Estate until they come of age and the Estate is dissolved ie house sold or in some way liquid funds raised....The property is not automatically the widow's to dispose of apparently and must be held over for the children until they reach majority. This is how I remember it anyway as I have heard these cases debated on BBC Radio 4. As one widow of an intestate husband said the only way she could get her statutory minimum out of the Estate was by "effectively suing her children"...A lot of people think the widow cops the lot when hubby dies....and she does if her name is on the Deeds and there is a will....but as ever, when there's no will there is a lot of work for lawyers! The above is really about England and Wales but I imagine much same on the Isle of Man??? I think people can take legal action over an Estate if they can prove some need or dependency.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Tragic as circumstances are, and I feel sorry for her children and for him, I do understand why he is not judged to be the owner of the house. It surely would be no different if she had purchased this house without the help of public money. But what of the children? Their names would not be on the deeds, would they? So do they inherit the house? If not, what happens to it? What happens to them? Sadly, with legally casual relationships, along with becoming involved with someone who has more/less/assets/children/responsibilities than you do, these problems will occur more often these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 ...The property is not automatically the widow's to dispose of apparently and must be held over for the children until they reach majority. this is how Manx Law operated for centuries - man and Wife were two independent parties in that each could leave wills but the Court in intestates always put the children's right first, but there was widowright - however the woman's rights were gradually reduced as Manx law became more anglicised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Tragic as circumstances are, and I feel sorry for her children and for him, I do understand why he is not judged to be the owner of the house. It surely would be no different if she had purchased this house without the help of public money. But what of the children? Their names would not be on the deeds, would they? So do they inherit the house? If not, what happens to it? What happens to them? Sadly, with legally casual relationships, along with becoming involved with someone who has more/less/assets/children/responsibilities than you do, these problems will occur more often these days. The answer is outlined in the post above ie situation in England and Wales and I am sure Isle of Man also. If someone dies without a will (Intestate) then statute law steps in and dictates who gets what according to a pecking order... The next of kin are children first...if no children then Mother and Father if one or none of them then brothers and sisters and so on.... Of course a properly drawn up and witnessed will has priority..... What would the children would get from an FTB House...well, that would depend on what such schemes allow you to accumulate by way of equity so as to create an Estate...(Precious little it would seem) and then there are the ages of the children so you could be talking about Trusts.... As regards surviving children as Minors well then in the absence of a father having responsibility such matters regarding care/fostering/& etc are for the Family Court ie a relative taking over via maybe such as a Residence Order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iom_cb Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 A very difficult situation, I'd like to think however that a little bit of compassion in finding a solution and dialogue between reasonable human beings would prevail. For example, if a way for the guy to stay in the property can't be found then maybe give the guy some time to sort things out, be reasonable and fair about it. The department should work with him to find a solution and quite frankly should be as accommodating as possible. It might mean that he has to buy a different property, but give him the time to do it and sort things out. On an island this size, we can afford to show a little compassion and use some discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowflake Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 So if a FTB on the deeds dies, anyone not on the named on the deeds has to leave? So a single parent dies. Does this mean that the children, who may be small, have to leave? and you can own a FTB house if you have previously owned a property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 On an island this size, we can afford to show a little compassion and use some discretion. Nah, rules is rules especially when it's not you that's going to loose out. Someone mentioned a sob story. Ffs how much of a real sob story is this? The poor guy's partner has died of cancer and he's being kicked out of their home! Of course public money should be protected* but its not like anyone's planned to rip the government off or been fickle in their choice of partner etc etc. as cb says, give him some time (say a year) to sort something else out if it's impossible for him to stay. * considering some of the ways the same gov p*ss our money up the wall on various projects, I'd say the amount they put into this house purchase is like a drop in the ocean in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 A very difficult situation, I'd like to think however that a little bit of compassion in finding a solution and dialogue between reasonable human beings would prevail. * Snip * On an island this size, we can afford to show a little compassion and use some discretion. Unfortunately this may result in a precedent being set. And what then? There are big financial concerns over here and many people needing help for one reason or another. A lot of them totally helpless. The very young, the very old and the very ill. I've watched elderly married couples forced to sell the homes that they've owned and lived in together for many decades in order to fund their own health care because they suffer from alzheimers. I've seen people forced to sell their homes and downsize - or rent - because of financial pressures. Things are very rarely fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 So a single parent dies. Does this mean that the children, who may be small, have to leave? If they were young children, they would most probably go into care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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