Thomas Jefferson Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Are they? What about the one in Patrick, he is lovely looking? Patrick obviously thinks-so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouser&curiouser Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 The gay issue is backed up right from the top global organisations down to local. We are probably not clever enough to invent things such as gay rights ourselves. Yes, there are disability protection laws but this is going into the area of private landlords - where the whole subject emanated from - where those on benefits eg the disabled and chronically sick are discriminated against on a regular basis - as well as families. I know this to be the case. I make no comment about whether this is right or wrong. It is simply a fact. And if it's wrong to discriminate aganst gays then how is it ok for others? Just saying.... I don't really know what you're getting at. You seem to remarking on something completely banal and keep repeating this thing about families being discriminated. What exactly are you getting at? Who says it is ok for others to be discriminated against? And exactly how are 'families' discriminated? It must be the sheer relevancy of the comment that you are having problems with. The topic is gay discrimination - n'est-ce-pas? As in prospective tenants being discriminated against because we don't have the same laws as uk. The fact is that those who apply for private rentals are discriminated against constantly and have been for as long as I can remember. Private landlords frequently state :No DHS. This means those in receipt of any form of benefit eg. DLA, incapacity etc.. Landords are also at liberty to refuse to have children in their properties. So this affects families. Therefore, families and benefit recipients are discriminated against on a constant basis. However. when the same tactics are applied to a gay couple we have international headlines and the CM declaring he will take rapid action against the dire situation we still have in discrimination towards gays. Where is the equality there? If you still have problems understanding this perfectly simply and relevant question don't expect me to respond any further. Everyone else that I have explained this to has understood me perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prism10 Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 LDV you need to listen to them or read the scripts. Julian and Sandy was very subversive and pre 1967 the fact it was on radio was challenging norms more than you seem to understand. Problem is the world has changed so much and you are young and dont seem able to imagine the impact for isolated gay men and on social accetpance that small steps like that had, and the plays of Joe Orton which were actually probably more challenging and subversive I have listened to Round to Horne. And I imagine it had a big impact for many gay men. But I don't understand why you think it was subversive. Can you please explain? I am not a really old codger but I think it was rather edgy for the times (homosexuality was illegal) and some of the jokes can fly over your head but if you were in the know, it was hilarious. Eg: Julian and Sandy Solicitors Sorry, we cannot take you divorce case, we have a criminal practice that takes up most of our time However humour moves on, just as a generation kept on going how subversive the Goons were, to the next generation is was, ffft its just silly voices and not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 It must be the sheer relevancy of the comment that you are having problems with. The topic is gay discrimination - n'est pas? It is about discrimination. Now, are you aware that it's all in English? As in prospective tenants being discriminated against because we don't have the same laws as uk. Yep The fact is that those who apply for private rentals are discriminated against constantly and have been for as long as I can remember. Private landlords frequently state :No DHS. This means those in receipt of any form of benefit eg. DLA, incapacity etc.. Landords are also at liberty to refuse to have children in their properties. So this affects families. Therefore, families and benefit recipients are discriminated against on a constant basis. However. when the same tactics are applied to a gay couple we have international headlines and the CM declaring he will take rapid action against the dire situation we still have in discrimination towards gays. Where is the equality there? Right, well for starters, don't mix up equality and discrimination. It doesn't make sense to bring in the issue of equality that gay people are aiming for under the law and what you're talking about. The difference between the discrimination you are talking about and that in this case is that families are not at risk (or there is no potential) for them to be systematically marginalised and oppressed because of a lack of legislation. There is no potential for all landlords to turn away families and most certainly not for businesses in general to do so. Whereas this could be very likely to happen for gay people. The decision to turn down families isn't based on the same forms of thinking that homophobia (and racism) are. It isn't about prejudice and ignorance. And it isn't about qualities that are inherent. So I wouldn't look at families in comparison and see an unfairness there as the needed law to support gay people is needed for different reasons (as it was with racism). That's not to say that it is right for landlords to turn down families. But another argument with different reasoning needs to be had over whether the State needs to enact laws about it. As for disability, that is more in line with the current issue and it does need sorting in my opinion. If you still have problems understanding this perfectly simply and relevant question don't expect me to respond any further. Everyone else that I have explained this to has understood me perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouser&curiouser Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Whereas this could very likely happen for gay people? Please stick to facts not fantasies. I regularly see at first hand how difficult it is for those seeking accommodation who don't tick all the boxes. Who do they turn to? Would AB plead the case of the others and become so publicly incensed? Anyway, the girls in question have found alternative accommodation. Chill. Ohmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 The gay issue is backed up right from the top global organisations down to local. We are probably not clever enough to invent things such as gay rights ourselves. Yes, there are disability protection laws but this is going into the area of private landlords - where the whole subject emanated from - where those on benefits eg the disabled and chronically sick are discriminated against on a regular basis - as well as families. I know this to be the case. I make no comment about whether this is right or wrong. It is simply a fact. And if it's wrong to discriminate aganst gays then how is it ok for others? Just saying.... I don't really know what you're getting at. You seem to remarking on something completely banal and keep repeating this thing about families being discriminated. What exactly are you getting at? Who says it is ok for others to be discriminated against? And exactly how are 'families' discriminated? It must be the sheer relevancy of the comment that you are having problems with. The topic is gay discrimination - n'est pas? As in prospective tenants being discriminated against because we don't have the same laws as uk. The fact is that those who apply for private rentals are discriminated against constantly and have been for as long as I can remember. Private landlords frequently state :No DHS. This means those in receipt of any form of benefit eg. DLA, incapacity etc.. Landords are also at liberty to refuse to have children in their properties. So this affects families. Therefore, families and benefit recipients are discriminated against on a constant basis. However. when the same tactics are applied to a gay couple we have international headlines and the CM declaring he will take rapid action against the dire situation we still have in discrimination towards gays. Where is the equality there? If you still have problems understanding this perfectly simply and relevant question don't expect me to respond any further. Everyone else that I have explained this to has understood me perfectly. Fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Isn't setting minority against minority doing the discriminators' jobs for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curiouser&curiouser Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Isn't setting minority against minority doing the discriminators' jobs for them? I don't have any particular axe to grind on this I just question the reaction to one particular group against the obvious non-reaction to others who are undoubtedly also being discriminated against. It's the feeling that I am being told how to think that bothers me. The CM says this discrimination is so wrong but appears unconcerned about other discriminatory practices. And while this legislation will be hurried along the disabied are still awaitng appropriate legislation for other issues too. I have no desire to wave any flags.It's about balance and fairness and I don't really think that the state can legislate for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhoulishDoolish Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 The gay issue is backed up right from the top global organisations down to local. We are probably not clever enough to invent things such as gay rights ourselves. Yes, there are disability protection laws but this is going into the area of private landlords - where the whole subject emanated from - where those on benefits eg the disabled and chronically sick are discriminated against on a regular basis - as well as families. I know this to be the case. I make no comment about whether this is right or wrong. It is simply a fact. And if it's wrong to discriminate aganst gays then how is it ok for others? Just saying.... I don't really know what you're getting at. You seem to remarking on something completely banal and keep repeating this thing about families being discriminated. What exactly are you getting at? Who says it is ok for others to be discriminated against? And exactly how are 'families' discriminated? It must be the sheer relevancy of the comment that you are having problems with. The topic is gay discrimination - n'est pas? As in prospective tenants being discriminated against because we don't have the same laws as uk. The fact is that those who apply for private rentals are discriminated against constantly and have been for as long as I can remember. Private landlords frequently state :No DHS. This means those in receipt of any form of benefit eg. DLA, incapacity etc.. Landords are also at liberty to refuse to have children in their properties. So this affects families. Therefore, families and benefit recipients are discriminated against on a constant basis. However. when the same tactics are applied to a gay couple we have international headlines and the CM declaring he will take rapid action against the dire situation we still have in discrimination towards gays. Where is the equality there? If you still have problems understanding this perfectly simply and relevant question don't expect me to respond any further. Everyone else that I have explained this to has understood me perfectly. Fair point +1, it IS a fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Whereas this could very likely happen for gay people? Please stick to facts not fantasies. I regularly see at first hand how difficult it is for those seeking accommodation who don't tick all the boxes. Who do they turn to? Would AB plead the case of the others and become so publicly incensed? Anyway, the girls in question have found alternative accommodation. Chill. Ohmm. But these people are not subject to the same or similar social forces, as mentioned before, this isn't an issue JUST about discrimination. The issue with this (and racial matters) is to stamp out a pernicious problem that comes about from a certain type of ignorant thinking. And what I mentioned isn't fantasy. Look at what is going on in Africa and Russia. What do you mean who do they turn to? And what's the relevance of the girls finding alternative accommodation? You sound as if you are showing anger towards gay people or the gay community that they have been effective in making a shout about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I don't have any particular axe to grind on this I just question the reaction to one particular group against the obvious non-reaction to others who are undoubtedly also being discriminated against. Like I said, it isn't just about discrimination. I mean, would you want to highlight the injustice of someone not being able to bring their dog into another home? I would think not. But you have a point with disability. But simply because of discrimination. It is about the effect that discrimination of the disabled has. It's the feeling that I am being told how to think that bothers me. Told how to think? Are pulling this soundbite from a right-wing newspaper without understanding the context? How is that relevant to the Chief Minister saying that this same-sex discrimination is wrong? The CM says this discrimination is so wrong but appears unconcerned about other discriminatory practices. And while this legislation will be hurried along the disabied are still awaitng appropriate legislation for other issues too. I have no desire to wave any flags.It's about balance and fairness and I don't really think that the state can legislate for that. He has appeared to be unconcerned. But you're right in saying they should be addressed. And yes, disability discrimination should be addressed. You DON'T think the State should be involved? So businesses should do as they please? Refer back to my much earlier comments about the history of racism to show why that can't be allowed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I don't have any particular axe to grind on this I just question the reaction to one particular group against the obvious non-reaction to others who are undoubtedly also being discriminated against. Like I said, it isn't just about discrimination. I mean, would you want to highlight the injustice of someone not being able to bring their dog into another home? I would think not. But you have a point with disability. But simply because of discrimination. It is about the effect that discrimination of the disabled has. It's the feeling that I am being told how to think that bothers me. Told how to think? Are pulling this soundbite from a right-wing newspaper without understanding the context? How is that relevant to the Chief Minister saying that this same-sex discrimination is wrong? The CM says this discrimination is so wrong but appears unconcerned about other discriminatory practices. And while this legislation will be hurried along the disabied are still awaitng appropriate legislation for other issues too. I have no desire to wave any flags.It's about balance and fairness and I don't really think that the state can legislate for that. He has appeared to be unconcerned. But you're right in saying they should be addressed. And yes, disability discrimination should be addressed. You DON'T think the State should be involved? So businesses should do as they please? Refer back to my much earlier comments about the history of racism to show why that can't be allowed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 The issue isnt the two women, although they highlight a problem here, but the fact the IOM does not have proper equality and anti discrimination legislation across all the fields it should. I cant see that there is any setting minority against minority risk here. The truth is that diverse and minority groups, when they get together and talk, find they haver more in common in the way they are treated by the "majority". And of course a person can be in a minority for one thing and the majority for everything else. Discrimination is insidious and is, or should be, about education, but legislation is required to enforce until the barriers fall away The equality act, if we get, it covers race, ethnicity, religion, ability and disability and gender and sexuality, not just LGBT. And LDV if you cant see that J&S in a 1960's world of a state monoploy broadcaster which did not allow the mention of homosexuality and before law change, was subversive just by being written and broadcast, I cant help you further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 One of these please. http://www.equalityni.org/site/default.asp?secid=home http://www.equalityni.org/sections/default.asp?secid=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Discrimination is insidious and is, or should be, about education, but legislation is required to enforce until the barriers fall away The equality act, if we get, it covers race, ethnicity, religion, ability and disability and gender and sexuality, not just LGBT' It most definitely is a culture/education issue. I know of older folks who are VERY racist. Sure you are always going to get racists, homophobes and so on but hopefully they should be a tiny minority. Currently they are not so in a way it is an age thing. To take a guess at when, say, racial discrimination has become very much a minority I would say not until the vast majority of Brits were born in the fifties or later. So around 2025 onwards perhaps? Time will tell. Now I'm not keen on the French but I think they are absolutely right to ban overt religious symbolism in schools which can only help to move things along in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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