When Skies Are Grey Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Its just a one off....I mean its not like the Govt has been involved in any other dubious loan deals in the past now is it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Accepted? It should have been demanded along with a good few more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 In my mind this whole sordid little affair underlines what a cesspit our government has degenerated into. They do what they want, when they want, why they want and with whom they want with other peoples money, with no consideration for any recourse as they know the boys in blue, the AG, senior civil servants and ministers are all in the same cosy little club, so they scratch each other's backs and find a bit of carpet to sweep it under. Job done. Move on. Only that's not how a democratic government and society is supposed to work and it needs weeding out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Bruiser Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 It's a standard Government situation Shimmin is being hung out to dry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I think the question is incomplete. It ought to have read: Should John Shimmin's resignation have been accepted before the next Legco elections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Shimmin is but one rotten apple in a barrel of rotten apples over this issue - and many other financial issues. One resignation is but tokenism in a failed system with no honesty or integrity. Though the ex P.E. teacher should get down and give us at least 1,650,000 press-ups for this. It's time to get the auditors in, make the PAC independent and to introduce financial accountability and to make people aware of the consequences of being unaccountable. If it were warmer here - our main export would be bananas. Unless I'm hearing wrong, hasn't the original, previously "secret" £450,000 loan to the Sefton also been ruled unlawful? This is corruption and incompetence right at the top of Government and it's now very public. Heads need to roll for this, those who engineered it including Bell, Teare and Shimmin as well as those CS and AG's. We need Auditors (for the Crown) who are capable of scrutinising the whole of Government brought in from across and let loose on the whole rotten shebang over here. A couple of months back, Bell stood in Tynwald and accused Karran of spurious claims of cronyism.....Bell needs to go, now. He has brought rags to the Island's arse and been immersed in corruption and dodgy dealing since the day he got in. If he was lucky he might avoid jail.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Shimmin is but one rotten apple in a barrel of rotten apples over this issue - and many other financial issues. One resignation is but tokenism in a failed system with no honesty or integrity. Though the ex P.E. teacher should get down and give us at least 1,650,000 press-ups for this. It's time to get the auditors in, make the PAC independent and to introduce financial accountability and to make people aware of the consequences of being unaccountable. If it were warmer here - our main export would be bananas. Unless I'm hearing wrong, hasn't the original, previously "secret" £450,000 loan to the Sefton also been ruled unlawful? This is corruption and incompetence right at the top of Government and it's now very public. Heads need to roll for this, those who engineered it including Bell, Teare and Shimmin as well as those CS and AG's. We need Auditors (for the Crown) who are capable of scrutinising the whole of Government brought in from across and let loose on the whole rotten shebang over here. A couple of months back, Bell stood in Tynwald and accused Karran of spurious claims of cronyism.....Bell needs to go, now. He has brought rags to the Island's arse and been immersed in corruption and dodgy dealing since the day he got in. If he was lucky he might avoid jail.... Spot on. But isn't it the Governors job to investigate such illegal wrongdoings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I must admit I have not really followed the Sefton matter, however, surely there should have been some form of legal advice sought/given before this went ahead. Who was responsible for that? IF (big if), John Shimmin and his colleagues had been advised that this was legal and could proceed then I see no reason to accept the resignation. If legal advice was ignored and he signed it off then his resignation should be accepted. If the legal advice was wrong then who provided it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 My concern is with the Chief Minister & the current Treasury Minister. He would no doubt have had to sign this deal off in its finality along with Mr. Teare, the Treasury Minister. It has now been proven to be an unlawful act and the buck must stop at the top. I can't help but feel that Mr. Shimmin is being played as a patsy here. There are others in that circle of trust who should be slightly worried by these findings. I agree with this - JS should distance himself from these two poisonous snakes ASAP & perhaps save his long term political career in doing so A demonstration of humbleness by a Manx politician would not go amiss at all, so stop talking about the 'business community' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxMann Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Whats the term 'Ignorance is no excuse'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACT Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Legal advice wasn't given because the acting AG was conflicted, being a shareholder in Sefton. The earlier loan was also ruled outside the law but it has been paid back so deemed ok now. I shall now go back to Tesco with the bottle of Vodka I nicked and expect to be let off any action as I have returned the illegally gained item. Shome chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Puppet 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I must admit I have not really followed the Sefton matter, however, surely there should have been some form of legal advice sought/given before this went ahead. Who was responsible for that? IF (big if), John Shimmin and his colleagues had been advised that this was legal and could proceed then I see no reason to accept the resignation. If legal advice was ignored and he signed it off then his resignation should be accepted. If the legal advice was wrong then who provided it? There was plenty of legal advice for the MEA. That was hardly 100%. A huge inquiry and external legal opinion confirmed that. What you going to do about? This is the Isle of Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I must admit I have not really followed the Sefton matter, however, surely there should have been some form of legal advice sought/given before this went ahead. Who was responsible for that? IF (big if), John Shimmin and his colleagues had been advised that this was legal and could proceed then I see no reason to accept the resignation. If legal advice was ignored and he signed it off then his resignation should be accepted. If the legal advice was wrong then who provided it? There was plenty of legal advice for the MEA. That was hardly 100%. A huge inquiry and external legal opinion confirmed that. What you going to do about? This is the Isle of Man. Very true. Robert Mugabe would look like a moderate over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 What you going to do about? This is the Isle of Man. I am going to do what any self-respecting poster to this forum would do. Complain on the internet but do absolutely nothing that might instigate change. God forbid something actually change. There would be so many people on here with nothing to do but recall how in the good old days there used to be stiff to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Incognito Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I am trying to find a "listen again" link for the emergency Tynwald debate that Alf Cannan requested and which took place later yesterday. I can only find the Handsard dealing with Shimmin's statement, the CM's Statement and the initial questions flowing from the CM's Statement - I can't find the later special debate. There are a couple of links on the Tynwald website but they only seem to be snapshots of the debate that took place which went on for ages but I only caught a bit of. Is there any way of listening to the full special debate and can anyone help me with this? Thanks PI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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