Happier diner Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 22 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: Is it pointless though? Is it right we should be rewarding such a monumental cock up with a gold- plated pension for life? No we shouldn't. But we are, and we have no choice. So it's pointless bleating on about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: No we shouldn't. But we are, and we have no choice. So it's pointless bleating on about it. Bit defeatist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 20 minutes ago, Happier diner said: We should be chasing the engineering consultancy that were paid handsomely to design and manage this process, not a few oiks that were just administrating it. But who was telling who though? And were qualified advice and recommendations ignored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 24 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: But who was telling who though? And were qualified advice and recommendations ignored? I don't have a crystal ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 35 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I don't have a crystal ball. It isn't a crystal ball that is required. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 1 hour ago, Gladys said: It isn't a crystal ball that is required. I know that. Perhaps an investigation is required. Do you remember a few years back when there was a report saying the DOI did not have staff with the skills to deliver large projects......just about the time the DOI were given a very large project to manage? Aka the Liverpool landing stage. 😱😱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 3 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I know that. Perhaps an investigation is required. Do you remember a few years back when there was a report saying the DOI did not have staff with the skills to deliver large projects......just about the time the DOI were given a very large project to manage? Aka the Liverpool landing stage. 😱😱 That would be this one, Beamans, that was only released in July 2021 though, well after the terminal was underway. The same report that said the DOI had "X" number of "engineers" who may not have any formal accreditation. Perhaps it is time to find out how and why these circumstances come to exist... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 There is every chance that in effect this project was another ego driven project where a few individuals had to have a 'prestige' presence on Merseyside. Without doubt the TT and shopping trips to Liverpool One aren't going to finance the project ! I would love to know how a relevant business case for what I believe was 3.5 m many moons ago, now manages to still be relevant at 100m ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 4 hours ago, Happier diner said: We should be chasing the engineering consultancy that were paid handsomely to design and manage this process, not a few oiks that were just administrating it. Deflection, well done Nick… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 10 Author Share Posted May 10 26 minutes ago, asitis said: I would love to know how a relevant business case for what I believe was 3.5 m many moons ago, now manages to still be relevant at 100m ! It doesn't, it became a case of spending whatever money it takes to try and justify it and save face quite some time ago. Under the guise that we were in so deep that we had to keep going. At least that's what our gullible elected were told and all duly hit the green button. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 7 hours ago, Passing Time said: Deflection, well done Nick… Idiot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 7 hours ago, asitis said: There is every chance that in effect this project was another ego driven project where a few individuals had to have a 'prestige' presence on Merseyside. Without doubt the TT and shopping trips to Liverpool One aren't going to finance the project ! I would love to know how a relevant business case for what I believe was 3.5 m many moons ago, now manages to still be relevant at 100m ! It definitely isn't. That's what I am trying to say. The mistakes are fundamental. Not by some DOI engineer sat at desk at the sea terminal. The mistakes are right from the outset and then with the pre investigation and the scope. Then the error with the sea wall not being up to the scour of the boat. Further compounded by COVID. There may have been some minor errors along the way but such things do not cause escalation of cost to this degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 19 minutes ago, Happier diner said: It definitely isn't. That's what I am trying to say. The mistakes are fundamental. Not by some DOI engineer sat at desk at the sea terminal. The mistakes are right from the outset and then with the pre investigation and the scope. Then the error with the sea wall not being up to the scour of the boat. Further compounded by COVID. There may have been some minor errors along the way but such things do not cause escalation of cost to this degree. The taxpayers purse strings are held by Government so any blame starts and ends there ! COVID and Brexit are the go to excuses for any manner of poor performance by Governments and companies alike, and at some time, as time goes by become less and less convincing. The bottom line is the taxpayers could not afford 100 million to get to Liverpool, and our elected should have pulled the plug long before it got anywhere near that figure. I don't do excuses, and for an investment of what, 300 million, the performance of our ferry company is pitiful ! Reflective really of Government. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 (edited) 58 minutes ago, asitis said: The taxpayers purse strings are held by Government so any blame starts and ends there ! COVID and Brexit are the go to excuses for any manner of poor performance by Governments and companies alike, and at some time, as time goes by become less and less convincing. The bottom line is the taxpayers could not afford 100 million to get to Liverpool, and our elected should have pulled the plug long before it got anywhere near that figure. I don't do excuses, and for an investment of what, 300 million, the performance of our ferry company is pitiful ! Reflective really of Government. Knowledgeable and interested parties were not listened to in this project where politics were allowed to take precedence over reality and practicality in this madness. PH (the lessors, FFS) warned of the difficulties of the site before a spade was even put in the ground. Any good engineering concern would have taken that on board and investigated and proceeded accordingly. Forewarned is forearmed unless something/somebody was overriding engineering expertise and good practice and dismissing that advice. The SPCo were never properly consulted as to the needs or specifics of their tonnage that would be using the facility, a vital piece of the whole project. Now Manannan also has to be modified with further time lost. Either somebody doesn't know what they are doing or basics have been thrown to the wind in the "must have" drive to get within pissing distance of Anfield. This "Project Team" need stringing up by the balls outside the Sea Terminal. Edited May 11 by Non-Believer Typo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 hour ago, asitis said: The taxpayers purse strings are held by Government so any blame starts and ends there ! COVID and Brexit are the go to excuses for any manner of poor performance by Governments and companies alike, and at some time, as time goes by become less and less convincing. The bottom line is the taxpayers could not afford 100 million to get to Liverpool, and our elected should have pulled the plug long before it got anywhere near that figure. I don't do excuses, and for an investment of what, 300 million, the performance of our ferry company is pitiful ! Reflective really of Government. I am not making excuses. COVID is a reason for the cost going up. Fact. It's not the main reason though and I haven't said that have I? All I am saying is that there is no one to sack for this. Black was responsible, he's gone. You can't take his pension away. Government is ultimately accountable. But you can't sack them. So what's the point on folks keep saying someone should be sacked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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