E-gaming is a sector we can be proud of, says Quayle

[yootalkin2me]

5 hours ago, BallaDoc said:

Really?  I would be genuinely interested to know what the PokerStars business model is, and in particular, the gaming yield.  I spent quite a long time trying to find out what the percentage profit skimmed from the punters by the gaming companies is.  I did multiple Google searches for phrases like "gaming profits", "gaming overheads" "gaming revenue" etc. but came up empty handed each time.  I eventually found this under "gaming yield":

 https://mannbenham.com/gaming-law-on-the-isle-of-man-chapter/

which is sort of what I was looking for, and mentions a figure of 15%, but I don't know if Poker Stars' profits are higher or lower than this.

For an industry which makes up 28% of the economy, it's surprisingly difficult to find out basic information about it.

15% seems at least a fair amount, possibly 20-25% would be more appropriate, for providing a platform for people to feed their addiction. However, I am at odds with the TV slogan for 'safe gambling; "When the fun stops, STOP", was it/is it ever actually fun?

[p3t3]

Lol, its fun if you are bragging to your mates that you are up, even when you aren't. Not so much fun when you just cleared out the family savings account and the mrs finds out. Thankfully we have a head of e-gaming that would never let that sort of thing happen.

[paul's got wright]

There are even people who win big, only to succumb to their habbit once more,  ending in financial ruin, or at least emotinal turmoil. It can be a serious issue for some

[Whatnonsence]

What is the actual return for government or more to the point to the people in the Isle of Man, through tax revenue?

How much of an increase in tax revenue has been realised through these incredible growth figures?

[NoTail]

The companies pay zero income tax so from an economic point there is no direct benefit. The benefit to the Manx economy is all in the indirect benefits, payroll taxes, some VAT, the employees spending some of their earnings on the Island etc. 

[yootalkin2me]

46 minutes ago, NoTail said:

The companies pay zero income tax so from an economic point there is no direct benefit. The benefit to the Manx economy is all in the indirect benefits, payroll taxes, some VAT, the employees spending some of their earnings on the Island etc. 

If this is true then we, as an island, really don't get much of a return from allowing these dubious companies to ply their 'trade' and we should therefore 'fuck them right off' and focus on other, more socially acceptable means of creating wealth.

[La Colombe]

31 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

 we should therefore 'fuck them right off' and focus on other, more socially acceptable means of creating wealth.

That doesn't sound like a good idea. 

[yootalkin2me]

2 hours ago, La Colombe said:

That doesn't sound like a good idea. 

In what way is it not?

[Lxxx]

3 hours ago, yootalkin2me said:

If this is true then we, as an island, really don't get much of a return from allowing these dubious companies to ply their 'trade' and we should therefore 'fuck them right off' and focus on other, more socially acceptable means of creating wealth.

Employing hundreds, if not thousands of people, doesn't give the island any kind of benefit? Are you bonkers?

[BallaDoc]

21 hours ago, pongo said:

You raise a good point. Far too few people have a basic concept of these issues - given that basic economics is at the root of our ability to fund essential services.

The increase in the production of spoons and specific widgets,  is clearly finite. Growth per se clearly isn't. And liquidity, which facilitates spending, can be created and destroyed at will by governments in concert with central banks. It's just about money really - which is just some numbers on a screen.

The increase in the production of spoons and specific widgets,  is clearly finite. Growth per se is clearly also finite, being the sum total of a number of finite things produced within a finite system (this planet).  The only thing which can be produced in infinite quantities is money, but an infinite amount of money isn't the same as an infinite amount of real wealth.  See, for example, Germany in 1924, Zimbabwe in 2008 and Venezuela at the present time.  Politicians and economists who promise that we can have infinite "growth" are deluding themselves, and us. 

[yootalkin2me]

4 hours ago, Lxxx said:

Employing hundreds, if not thousands of people, doesn't give the island any kind of benefit? Are you bonkers?

Not any more than if those hundreds or thousands were employed in other areas.

And yes, I am bonkers.

[Phillip Dearden]

8 hours ago, NoTail said:

The companies pay zero income tax so from an economic point there is no direct benefit. The benefit to the Manx economy is all in the indirect benefits, payroll taxes, some VAT, the employees spending some of their earnings on the Island etc. 

...and Gambling Duty.

[Kopek]

I think the attraction to our Govt of this industry is.......... the high wages paid and the tax there upon. Better than a thousand min wage jobs!

Although this does nothing for Island residents on min wage  whom want to earn more in newly created jobs!

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/28/2018 at 8:46 AM, BallaDoc said:

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=43051&headline=eGaming is a sector we can be proud of says Quayle&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2018

Ye Gods.  Am I the only one who has a problem with this?  As I understand it, the basics of e-gaming are these: you take a pound from each of 100 people on the basis that they all have a chance of winning a lot of money.  99 out the 100 get nothing.  The remaining one gets 85 pounds.  The organisers get 15 pounds (assuming a gaming yield of 15%, which I believe is the industry standard).  No physical goods are produced.  And this, according to Quayle, makes up 28% of our economy, and that's a good thing. 

It doesn't quite work like that. And you will be surprised at just how much 'gambling' actually affects your daily life, even if you don't put money onto casino games or sports teams. Take a look at 1) Casino/Sportsbook and 2) Your pension and bank account

1) Casino/Sportsbook

If you look at probability and statistics you'll find the chances of tossing a coin and getting heads or tails is 50% or 50:50 which means that if you bet on each coin toss you're going to lose 50% of the time and win 50% of the time. So bet on a coin toss 5 times in succession and the chances are you may see any combination such as 4 heads 1 tails, 4 tails 1 heads, 3 heads 2 tails etc. you will win or lose something depending on your call. But bet on a coin toss all day everyday for years and it will average out 50:50 meaning you will not win or lose anything on average...just waste your time.

Casino games also have probability spreads. Roulette wheels are random but over a great deal of time the house always wins. Why? Because the odds on a table give the casino a 5% advantage so that 95% of the stake is returned to the players through various wins, while the casino on average takes 5%.

All coin operated fruit machines (such as maybe one in your local) have similar distributions (which are tested properly) - and you can see the payout % printed on the front of the machine if you look...usually 94-96% payout...which means the operator gets a profit on average of 4 to 6%. Of course we all see those people that throw in hundreds of pounds a night into fruit machines winning big, losing big but again on average for every £100 they put in they will be losing 4-6%. But like the coins these things average out, so while some big spender on the pub gambler nips to get several hundred more pounds out of the ATM, a little old granny could chuck £2 in and win the jackpot. These machines do not recognise the player, just the cash going in and their own probability distributions.

Poker providers take a certain % of the stake in order to provide the service and pay their staff to do so.

So if a Casino gaming company has 50 million customers, yes, that 5% is a lot of money, but it also needs a lot of staff and infrastructure behind the scenes to provide the service.

Sports betting is different as there are many variables involved in, say, a football match. Basically they use algorithms to provide a spread of odds, which usually on average give them an advantage of around 5% (on average - as these companies can lose big style on some events, such as the housewives favourite winning the Grand National). And of course there are more skilled and knowledgeable players in sports betting, people who know that say Manchester United are more likely to beat a bottom of the table team by a certain margin etc. But there's always some others who will bet on the other team to win...and sometimes that happens of course..but probably not.

2) Your pension and bank account

You willingly hand over a lump sum every month to pay for your pension? What do you think happens with all this? There are teams of people that are paid to gamble with your money, invest in this company, divest from that company. At the end of the year you find that your pension pot has gone up or down, usually dependent on the investment risk (usually selected low, medium, high) that you are willing to take. Risk means gambling. And guess what - the house wins again as the gamblers (investment managers) take a fixed percentage of your investment through fees. It might only be 1%, but hey, everybody needs a pension.

And ever pay in a cheque and wonder why it takes 1-3 days to clear? And what happens to your money in-between? Well the banks put it in a big pot and gamble it on currency exchanges that are happening all around the world even as we sleep. They bet your money on whether currencies will go up, down or stay the same. They buy currencies in advance on the basis their value will increase. Even big companies do this with their cash flow. That £200 cheque you wrote yesterday could be in Arabia overnight deciding how much a litre of petrol is going to cost you in 3 months, it could be being used to change the future price of food in some countries leading to many going hungry.

Of course investment/bank gambling led to the latest 2008 finance crash...with probably...another gambling related crunch now building up.

You have to wake up to the fact that only 10% of humans actually produce or do something that is meaningful to humanity. The other 90% are either gambling with your money, selling you stuff you don't need or providing 'services' that most of us never even needed few years ago.

[La Colombe]

58 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

If you look at probability and statistics you'll find the chances of tossing a coin and getting heads or tails is 50% or 50:50 which means that if you bet on each coin toss you're going to lose 50% of the time and win 50% of the time. So bet on a coin toss 5 times in succession and the chances are you may see any combination such as 4 heads 1 tails, 4 tails 1 heads, 3 heads 2 tails etc. you will win or lose something depending on your call. But bet on a coin toss all day everyday for years and it will average out 50:50 meaning you will not win or lose anything on average...just waste your time.

I've always thought you were a tosser.