Roger Mexico Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 4 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said: I've never understood why they show tourism adverts for the Isle of Man at the local cinema. You're either already here on holiday or live here. Because the main purpose of Isle of Man tourist advertising long ago stopped being trying to attract people to come here on holiday and became the Department of Tourism (and its successors) pretending that they were doing something to justify their salaries. So from their point of view the only useful ads are the ones shown on the Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Thanks to brexit the pound is down to between 1.05 and 1.10 € so staycations are all the rage with camping the least stressful on your wallet. Plus places like Abersoch are well decent. Actually it's thanks to corrupt and power hungry MP's and Eurocrats and an entire fifth column of traitors who still can't get over losing the vote and will cause as much trouble as possible, whatever the consequences for the country. People voting in the referendum just wanted Brexit and there was no talk of withdrawal agreements, penalties, backstops or political deals. The people spoke and the politicians have obfuscated and largely ignored them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buncha wankas Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 15 hours ago, Shake me up Judy said: Good luck with that one. The Manx people are predominantly apolitical and more concerned with community and 'their Island' than politics. It's a form of Manx exceptionalism. I'm not saying it has always been that way, but certainly in my lifetime it has. If things went seriously downhill then I think you'd see a more active and healthier (?) democracy, but until then you're wasting your time. You're squeezed between long established interests on the one hand, and the apathy and cynicism of the people on the other. Manx people must be and have been doing something right in their island politics over the 1000 years, because thousands have moved here to become residents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, buncha wankas said: Manx people must be and have been doing something right in their island politics over the 1000 years, because thousands have moved here to become residents Unfortunately, many MHK's seem to forget who voted them in, especially those in the cabinet office. It seems that money coming from elsewhere seems to have attracted them, helped them out from certain difficulties and that they've forgot their oath to protect the people they serve. Dr Ewart but not a real medical Doctor, is one of those egotistical self pontificating people and you will either follow her lead or you will fall in her presence! Mark my words about her and keep your distance as she is one person who I wouldn't trust with a bargepole. yet is someone who is there to protect the people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxdaleliberationfront Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Stu Peters said: there was no talk of withdrawal agreements, penalties, backstops or political deals. The people spoke and the politicians have obfuscated and largely ignored them. Well that utter bollocks to begin with! Norway Plus, Canada style deal - all the other crap the Brexstremists carried on about. Although I'm not surprised you support Brexit. It's very popular among the over-70's. Or is it more you're in admiration of Farage and his (poorly run) radio phone in? I bet you'd love to have the level of calls that he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 7 hours ago, Stu Peters said: Actually it's thanks to corrupt and power hungry MP's and Eurocrats and an entire fifth column of traitors who still can't get over losing the vote and will cause as much trouble as possible, whatever the consequences for the country. People voting in the referendum just wanted Brexit and there was no talk of withdrawal agreements, penalties, backstops or political deals. The people spoke and the politicians have obfuscated and largely ignored them. My ballot paper read: Remain a member of the European Union Leave the European Union which was the start of the problems really. With no T&C's unscrupulous politicians had carte blanche to try and craft whichever kind of brexit that suited their personal ambitions. However this exercise has taught us one thing - in the main our politicians are absolutely bloody awful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Bloomin' Ada, well said that man..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 52 minutes ago, quilp said: Bloomin' Ada, well said that man..! Oh fuck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, P.K. said: However this exercise has taught us one thing - in the main our politicians are absolutely bloody awful.... Chris Thomas used to bang on about referendums and wanted to see the Island use them more often. But that was before he knew what they really were. A referendum by its very nature and definition is a devisive erm, device. No better way can there be to split a community. He soon STFU over it though. I'll give Allan Bell his due, he fucked Chris Thomas right off. Worth listening to both their words: https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/chief-dismisses-referendum-calls-as-cop-out/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hampton Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 10 hours ago, P.K. said: Thanks to brexit the pound is down to between 1.05 and 1.10 € so staycations are all the rage with camping the least stressful on your wallet. Plus places like Abersoch are well decent. Apologies to the OP for carrying on down this sideline. North Wales was really impressive, stunning and so much to do - surprised me. And as noted, full almost everywhere we went - also unexpected. Took a relaxed approach to booking stuff and as a result had several close calls or long waits (including Zip World), didn’t make it up Snowdon as the train was full for almost the entire summer, and nearly got ejected from our preferred campsite as it was full for several nights on the second week we wanted. That said, we’ve been touring and camping more or less every year for nearly 20 years and could count on one hand the number of times we’ve been to a site that wasn’t busy in summer (you know you’ve found a dud site if it’s not busy). Generally anywhere decent is busy all through the summer right across Europe, which confirms to my mind how badly the IOM is failing on this front - entirely down to the boat cost I'd say. We were on Romo (off the coast of Denmark) purely by chance briefly in summer 2017. Tiny scrap of sand with basically bugger all going for it other than a huge beach and lots of wind. Rammed (all summer long apparently) - because you can drive there via a causeway. If North Wales and the Lake District are rammed all summer, what other explanation can there be for the distinct lack of overspill in the same sector here? Unless you’re hiking and roughing it I think “camping is cheap” is a bit of a myth. If you have decent kit, want to stay anywhere nice, want to do ‘stuff’ and eat decent food I think you’d still be able to get a cheaper package deal than your average camping trip, even with current exchange rates. We do it on the cheap and it’s still not cheap! It’s a huge industry right across Europe and the IOM is clearly missing out given what we can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hampton Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, P.K. said: However this exercise has taught us one thing - in the main our politicians are absolutely bloody awful.... They are, because they can, and they maintain the format that facilitates it. Doesn’t have to be that way, but as others have noted, majority still too comfortable to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hampton Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 56 minutes ago, gettafa said: A referendum by its very nature and definition is a devisive erm, device. No better way can there be to split a community. Evidence for that? Plenty of evidence against it, as you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Oh come on! Much of my work is in Bonnie Scotland and has been for 30 years. Communities and even (well particularly actually) families are split. Ditto EU referendum. But you already know that. It took a couple of decades to ease the dissent caused by the Scottish devolution referendum in 1979. But for various and well documented reasons SNP rose up and now we have the mad woman (I stand by that description) Sturgeon who shouted so loudly about "a once in a lifetime opportunity" but is further shouting for a second "once in a lifetime opportunity". This is only fuelling the fire to split the country. If a matter is considered necessarily for a referendum then by it's nature it is going to be on the lines of a polarised 50-50 split (yeah, yeah, yeah. 60-40 or whatever) but enough to split a community. Please feel free to provide your reasons, and ok, go on, your evidence, in support of referendums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 On 8/27/2019 at 12:01 AM, foxdaleliberationfront said: What would you change though? It's fine to say you're sick of the Governemnt and have no faith in politicians.. and I suspect a large part of the population feel the same. But what would you change? You need to have clear aims and objectives. I suspect you'd find that the current bunch of self self serving bureaucrats would just be replaced by a new bunch of self serving bureaucrats. It's just the nature of politics. Personally I'd ban the TT/MGP/FOM. Scrap all so-called local authorities. Pass all the railways over to the well meaning volunteer groups for them to look after. The money saved from both would be passed to the health service. Turn Foxdale into an internment camp - barb wire/towers and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hampton Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, gettafa said: Oh come on! Much of my work is in Bonnie Scotland and has been for 30 years. Communities and even (well particularly actually) families are split. Ditto EU referendum. But you already know that. It took a couple of decades to ease the dissent caused by the Scottish devolution referendum in 1979. But for various and well documented reasons SNP rose up and now we have the mad woman (I stand by that description) Sturgeon who shouted so loudly about "a once in a lifetime opportunity" but is further shouting for a second "once in a lifetime opportunity". This is only fuelling the fire to split the country. If a matter is considered necessarily for a referendum then by it's nature it is going to be on the lines of a polarised 50-50 split (yeah, yeah, yeah. 60-40 or whatever) but enough to split a community. Please feel free to provide your reasons, and ok, go on, your evidence, in support of referendums. Your point, as I read it, was that referenda created these problems. However, as you’ve more or less just explained, the problems you describe were created entirely by traditional forms of representation and leadership. Referenda, in your examples, were only used cynically when the leadership in question reached a problem they could not manipulate their way past. A referendum is a tool. Like any tool it can be used well or badly. A politician (or a king / dictator) is always a leader by nature, and when your referenda are under their control the results will always be as you have described. Earlier in this thread you outlined the problem with those who want to lead. You can’t have it both ways. If you want evidence of how to ensure referenda work well simply look for the rare places where they are ultimately controlled by the population. The EU / Brexit shitshow would never have happened in the first place - as it hasn’t elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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