Manxberry Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Deal done, FlyBe saved. I'm sure the shareholders from last year who lost everything will be thrilled by this /s. Also Thomas Cook shareholders /s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxst Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Flybe saved after the government has stepped in to help. Phew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Just now, manxst said: Flybe saved after the government has stepped in to help. Phew! Let’s wait and see which routes they keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Manxberry said: Deal done, FlyBe saved. I'm sure the shareholders from last year who lost everything will be thrilled by this /s. Also Thomas Cook shareholders /s. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Uhtred said: Link? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51113895 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Nellie said: Surely, if the UK Government do decide to reduce APD, from, say 1st March, then any passengers who have paid APD, but not yet flown, at that date, will be due a refund. So, how will this help FlyBE? Well if you try to reclaim your £13 APD: any tax redemption (namely Air Passenger Duty) on unused tickets will incur a £25.00 (EUR35.00, CHF40.00) Tax Redemption Fee per person per sector. So you will get a refund of -£12 ie you'll end up paying them. I presume the idea is that by dropping APD on domestic flights, the airlines will be able to raise their fares by a similar amount. It's certainly something where the spin seems to be coming from the government rather than the airline or the BBC because the Guardian has a similar story where the two element (the delay for Flybe and the reduction) seem to be confused in the same way. Presumably neither Government spin doctors nor the media really know what they are talking about. I suspect the UK are also trying to find a 'win' from Brexit (they couldn't do t when in the EU without also reducing APD for the rest of EU/EEA). In 2018 about 5.6 million of Flybe's 8 million pax were domestic. Take off IOM, CIs and other oddities such as infants and it would still be 5 million @ £13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: I presume the idea is that by dropping APD on domestic flights, the airlines will be able to raise their fares by a similar amount. It's certainly something where the spin seems to be coming from the government rather than the airline or the BBC because the Guardian has a similar story where the two element (the delay for Flybe and the reduction) seem to be confused in the same way. Presumably neither Government spin doctors nor the media really know what they are talking about. Don't know where the "£100m tax bill" comes from, further conflation of various issues, possibly. If APD is ditched, it will apply to all domestic carriers. If they all then increase their prices by £13 per sector, would that count as price fixing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxberry Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Looks like HRMC were already helping them out by offering them an annual return rather than the monthly return that is required of everyone else. https://www.gov.uk/money/air-passenger-duty I see FlyBe do 350,000 passengers through Ronaldsway, so ~175,000 departing passengers all paying £13 a go is £2.25 million they must owe the IOM Government. Seems corrupt to me, offering one airline something that others don't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 St Greta WILL be impressed at the thought of a tax break for an air carrier.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, GD4ELI said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51113895 Thought this was funny: The firm's shareholders, which include Virgin Atlantic and Stobart Group, have agreed to put more money into the loss-making airline. Now remind me again what happened to the original shareholders before this consortium took over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 A commentard on the ever-reliable pprune.org says the following which seems to be the clearest summary I have seen: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, Bobbie Bobster said: A commentard on the ever-reliable pprune.org says the following which seems to be the clearest summary I have seen: Can’t be correct. 1. Stobart put next to no money into Connect. It’s part of the deal was to inject some of its, profitable, airline assets. 2. Cyrus and Virgin were to put funds in, £100million. 3. The £2million bought the shares in flybe. That was value after taking account of debts and assets, ie slots. 4. Connect cannot just sell the slots and take the money and run. The money would go to flybe to pay off its debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nellie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: Well if you try to reclaim your £13 APD: any tax redemption (namely Air Passenger Duty) on unused tickets will incur a £25.00 (EUR35.00, CHF40.00) Tax Redemption Fee per person per sector. So you will get a refund of -£12 ie you'll end up paying them. I'm aware that's the routine if you cancel a booking and try to reclaim the APD component.. But if UK Govt. reduce the rate of APD would be a different scenario. It FlyBe, and any other airlines holding forward booking didn't refund APD, they collected for future flights, then the total amount retained by the airlines would effectively be a subsidy from the Treasury. That said, I suppose the Treasury could write the regulations in such a away that passengers pay the tax applicable when you book, not when you fly, although that seems morally dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nellie said: That said, I suppose the Treasury could write the regulations in such a away that passengers pay the tax applicable when you book, not when you fly, although that seems morally dubious. That's the way it works already, if you think about it. If you book an advance ticket and the APD rate is then announced to rise before you travel, you don't have to pay any extra provided the sector has been ticketed, which I think is the tax date for the transaction. In most cases that will be when the flight is booked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 42 minutes ago, John Wright said: Can’t be correct. What do you think is correct, John? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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