Flybe on the brink again

[WTF]

not to worry,  IOMG will let them run up a 7 figure tab to save them and when they eventually go bang, which they will, IOMG will nearly have an inquiry 10 years later.

[winnie]

I often fly to and from gatwick with easyjet, and average price is say £25 each way. Take away the £13 tax and there's not a lot left !! 

[Lxxx]

Just now, winnie said:

I often fly to and from gatwick with easyjet, and average price is say £25 each way. Take away the £13 tax and there's not a lot left !! 

True. I often wonder how these companies make it work. They clearly rely on volume but at those kind of margins it's a precarious business and every decision needs to be spot on.

[Karellen]

Flights from the Scottish Islands are Exempt from APD .   Is that because flights are a lifeline for these islands, or because their local politicians stood up for their populations?     

[Derek Flint]

2 minutes ago, Karellen said:

Flights from the Scottish Islands are Exempt from APD .   Is that because flights are a lifeline for these islands, or because their local politicians stood up for their populations?     

It’s also why, if you are going long haul, the best option is to hop to Dublin and book your outbound from there. The savings run into hundreds.

[Lxxx]

2 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

It’s also why, if you are going long haul, the best option is to hop to Dublin and book your outbound from there. The savings run into hundreds.

Interesting. Didn't know that.

[Derek Flint]

32 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

Interesting. Didn't know that.

Run something like LHR to Capetown through the BA website, then do the same exercise from Dublin. 

It might surprise you. 

[TheTeapot]

If flybe get this concession to keep them in the air and don't have to pay the APD for a bit, why should we? 

[Roger Mexico]

28 minutes ago, Karellen said:

Flights from the Scottish Islands are Exempt from APD .   Is that because flights are a lifeline for these islands, or because their local politicians stood up for their populations?     

It started out because small planes were exempt anyway (under 19 seats I think) and those are the sort that fly those routes.  When APD was devolved the Scottish Government made it more general.  Because of the low numbers there's not much loss of revenue anyway.  Also, as you say, it applies to flights from these airports, but not to them. 

35 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

It’s also why, if you are going long haul, the best option is to hop to Dublin and book your outbound from there. The savings run into hundreds.

Yes APD is basically a British thing, so it doesn't apply to departures from outside UK/IOM/CI[1].  And it is applied per 'leg', so you don't pay it for the return if that is from somewhere outside the UK (though of course other countries may have their own local taxes).  It can be quite high as well - fly in most expensive seats (and what retired policeman would dream of less?) to somewhere well outside Europe and it could be £515 person.

Incidentally as well as Dublin, you could also consider Belfast because You do not pay duty on direct long-haul flights departing from airports in Northern Ireland.

 

[1]  You need to be careful they are separate flights though.  Through-flights originating in the UK might incur APD for the whole journey.

[mad_manx]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

It’s also why, if you are going long haul, the best option is to hop to Dublin and book your outbound from there. The savings run into hundreds.

Even more if  a few of you are flying in business.

[Non-Believer]

56 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

If flybe get this concession to keep them in the air and don't have to pay the APD for a bit, why should we? 

Pensions 

[Bobbie Bobster]

2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

If flybe get this concession to keep them in the air and don't have to pay the APD for a bit, why should we? 

It will still be due, if I understand correctly, just deferred - think they were originally looking for a "payment holiday"?

I note the BBC is talking about a cut in APD, not sure how that would help Flybe.

[display name]

3 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Run something like LHR to Capetown through the BA website, then do the same exercise from Dublin. 

It might surprise you. 

Just tried. £23 difference and BA is a shorter journey time

[Nellie]

2 hours ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

It will still be due, if I understand correctly, just deferred - think they were originally looking for a "payment holiday"?

I note the BBC is talking about a cut in APD, not sure how that would help Flybe.

Yes, I think this is much more complex than the BBC are spinning it. 

FlyBe carry around 8 million passengers per year, but some of those won't have to pay APD i.e. flights involving a leg which starts in the CI, or Europe (inc. RoI). But, even if we use 8 million as a starting figure and apply £13 APD to each passenger, we get £104m. So, £100m, which is the figure being quoted in the media, is around 12 months APD.

This doesn't sound credible. APD falls due to be paid to HMRC, only after the flight has taken place, so say, around £8.5m per month, and has to be paid monthly, although the CAA website is a bit vague on how much credit airlines get, after actually collecting it. But surely, its not more than (say) another month?

FlyBe's business model relies on passengers paying, in full, at the time of booking, which may be months before they fly, so at any moment in time, they must be holding many millions in APD, which has been  collected, but is not due for payment to HMRC, because the flight hasn't happened.

Surely, if the UK Government do decide to reduce APD, from, say 1st March, then any passengers who have paid APD, but not yet flown, at that date, will be due a refund.

So, how will this help FlyBE?

[GD4ELI]

23 minutes ago, Nellie said:

So, how will this help FlyBE?

A good BBC article.

The proposal is to defer paying APD, any APD change will first be in the 2020 budget in March.