manxman1980 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 6 hours ago, TheTeapot said: It's all because the US followed up electing a black man with a racist. Indeed. With Obama as President the world seemed a much more positive place. We now have the UK and USA with leaders who are reactionary, who speak without thinking and who engage in divide and conquer politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Indeed. With Obama as President the world seemed a much more positive place. You obviously don't follow the failed impeachment of Trump, the Flynn case and Obama, Clintons, FBI's Peter Strzok That positive place, is positively corrupt to it's core. Edited July 2, 2020 by Holte End 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Holte End said: You obviously don't follow the failed impeachment of Trump, the Flynn case and Obama, Clintons, FBI's Peter Strzok That positive place, is positively corrupt to it's core. Yes, American politics is corrupt. Their politics are far to open to the influence of wealthy donors, and private businesses who donate money to ensure that their interests are looked after ahead of the population. At least in the UK their is a restriction on how much can be spent on political campaigning. I notice that you have not mentioned the controversy surrounding George W Bush's election in 2000, nor his war with Iraq for which Tony Blair has wifely criticised for in this country. And of course Trump's impeachment relates to possible foreign influence in his election which has still not been fully answered. The big difference with the current US Administration is that they openly lie and claim things are true or false despite evidence elsewhere. As an example Trump stood with a number of pandemic experts at the start of the current coronavirus pandemic. Each one of the experts stated that they expected an increase in infections (something which has been proven to be true) and immediately after Trump came forward and stated that infections were decreasing. If you think Trump is going to "drain the swamp" then you are delusional. Trump simply wants to have the Whitehouse serve him and his party donors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, manxman1980 said: If you think Trump is going to "drain the swamp" then you are delusional. Trump simply wants to have the Whitehouse serve him and his party donors. You stated " With Obama as President the world seemed a much more positive place" and you think I am delusional. As far as I can see nothing ever changes, one bad President for another. Unfortunately Mr Trump doesn't need help to look totally incompetent, but will probably return to the whitehouse because of actions taken by Obama's administration, like the Flynn case. I believe he was only elected due to the Hillary Clinton emails linked to the Benghazi incident, again under Obama's administration. Edited July 2, 2020 by Holte End 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Shoe Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 hours ago, manxman1980 said: With Obama as President the world seemed a much more positive place. I agree, things seem so much better with an eloquent man in charge. I'd watch an Obama oration and couldn't help but nod. It seems like Trump inherited a practical utopia and turned it into hell on earth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Holte End said: Unfortunately Mr Trump doesn't need help to look totally incompetent, but will probably return to the whitehouse because of actions taken by Obama's administration, like the Flynn case. Mr Flynn pleaded GUILTY to a bunch of crimes, and is only free because of the absolute corruption of the US legal system by AG Barr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheTeapot said: Mr Flynn pleaded GUILTY to a bunch of crimes, and is only free because of the absolute corruption of the US legal system by AG Barr. Yes with Obama as president the world seemed a much more positive place. The FBI and the AG, all appointed by said President Obama, withhold evidence, this said evidence would have exonerated Flynn and would not have instigated a guilty plea. Biden and Obama are both implicated. I think Trump will in the end hang himself, so why do this. The only people who really lose out are the american voters. Edited July 2, 2020 by Holte End Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog's Dangly Bits Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr Shoe said: I agree, things seem so much better with an eloquent man in charge. I'd watch an Obama oration and couldn't help but nod. It seems like Trump inherited a practical utopia and turned it into hell on earth. did he? Pre covid (which has fucked up most places) the USA was doing relatively well under Trump. Don't forget he got elected because of the shit deal so many Americans were getting under Obama. The main beneficiaries under Obama were everyone outside of the States. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mr Shoe said: I agree, things seem so much better with an eloquent man in charge. I'd watch an Obama oration and couldn't help but nod. F...F....Flea....Fleabag? Is that you? Edited July 2, 2020 by gettafa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Stark Starkey flying close to the wind. Surprised at the lack of outrage over his comments... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Shoe Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 6 hours ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said: did he? Pre covid (which has fucked up most places) the USA was doing relatively well under Trump. Don't forget he got elected because of the shit deal so many Americans were getting under Obama. The main beneficiaries under Obama were everyone outside of the States. Nah. Just being sarcastic. Always bemused how people fawn over those politicians whose every word is focus group tested. But Trump baaaad! Obama would make a wonderful dinner guest, but he was a pretty ineffectual leader. Actually, I think the momentum of a machine like the US is so immense that an individual (be it Trump, Obama, Ghandi or Father Dougal McGuire) has very little effect on the country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 A good two parter on BBC Four tonight on slavery by David Olusoga. The main message was how embedded slavery has been in the development of Britain, primarily economically. Not least was how widespread slave ownership was, but also in the compensation paid to slave owners (not the slaves) on the abolition of slavery. Huge amounts were paid that were then invested in buildings, businesses, infrastructure such as the railways and other institutions that we see as part of the establishments that make Britain. Even the RNLI gets a mention, but not Hillary, Hibbert who was a substantial plantation, and so slave, owner. The compensation was likened to the 2008 bank bailout, as slavery was "too big to fail", and in terms of numbers involved was the biggest government bailout in history. The bailout was funded by taxes, which at the time were consumption taxes not income tax which didn't exist at the time. So, the impoverished were hardest hit. You can find it on iplayer, it is worth a watch. It wasn't arguing for apologies, or reparations, but for this part of British history to no longer be hidden. David Olusoga is also very easy on the eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhtred Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 6 hours ago, Gladys said: A good two parter on BBC Four tonight on slavery by David Olusoga. The main message was how embedded slavery has been in the development of Britain, primarily economically. Not least was how widespread slave ownership was, but also in the compensation paid to slave owners (not the slaves) on the abolition of slavery. Huge amounts were paid that were then invested in buildings, businesses, infrastructure such as the railways and other institutions that we see as part of the establishments that make Britain. Even the RNLI gets a mention, but not Hillary, Hibbert who was a substantial plantation, and so slave, owner. The compensation was likened to the 2008 bank bailout, as slavery was "too big to fail", and in terms of numbers involved was the biggest government bailout in history. The bailout was funded by taxes, which at the time were consumption taxes not income tax which didn't exist at the time. So, the impoverished were hardest hit. You can find it on iplayer, it is worth a watch. It wasn't arguing for apologies, or reparations, but for this part of British history to no longer be hidden. David Olusoga is also very easy on the eye. He’s a very articulate and persuasive history commentator - and I like his easily approachable style for the non-historians among us. His ‘House Through Time’ series, of which there have now been three, are also very good. He writes a monthly column in the BBC History magazine too. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 6 hours ago, Gladys said: Not least was how widespread slave ownership was, It wasn't widespread at all, no matter how many times empty-brained people on TV -- who are all direct or indirect agents of the British intelligence services and paid actors reading from a script and using carefully rehearsed vocal inflection for maximum effect -- claim otherwise. Anybody with a functioning brain knows that the overwhelming majority of the population of Britain on the eve of Abolition was living a meager subsistence existence and that abolition was part of widespread social reforms which were brought in precisely because Britain's working class was mistreated and in so much poverty that the country was on the cusp of revolution. Pockets of revolutionary resistance did pop up all over Britain and were violently suppressed and are now erased from the history books. Most people couldn't afford to feed their own children, never mind own slaves. As usual, the BBC is just the public propaganda arm of the British intelligence services who, like their US counterparts, are very likely the very ones who started and are directing these divisive groups. It's all a scam to divide people so they can control us. They're also the instigators and controllers of the far right too who are simply another form of controlled opposition. I wouldn't want to leave them out of this. Left and right is a false dichotomy of control. They're both coming at you from different angles to push the same thing: more government control. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FDR Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Uhtred said: He’s a very articulate and persuasive history commentator - and I like his easily approachable style for the non-historians among us. His ‘House Through Time’ series, of which there have now been three, are also very good. He writes a monthly column in the BBC History magazine too. Thanks The only TV historian who was worth listening to and speaks the truth is David Starkey and that's why he's never invited on anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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