Assisted Dying

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I am aware that 'there are' persons who feel that if a person wishes to commit suicide, then they should be able to do so, regardless of their age, health or mental ability?

I personally, can't understand this logic as anyone having a bad moment could top themselves without at the very least - talking things through. That said, its only my opinion and I'm sure there's one or two more out there that have views either way and I therefore see the cracks forming and a bit like opening a can of worms.

Nevermind, move on, nothing to see here.

 

 

[2112]

From the NPM this morning - looks like Manx Care will be involved. How much will it cost the taxpayers? No doubt more civil servants to administer?

MHKs vote against amendment to Assisted Dying Bill

An attempt to have assisted dying delivered by a charitable organisation instead of Manx Care has been defeated.

Glenfaba and Peel MHK Kate Lord-Brennan wanted to add a clause to the Assisted Dying Bill which would have prevented staff employed by the Island's healthcare provider from being able to provide assisted dying services.

She told the House of Keys why she felt the move was necessary:

Her amendment was rejected 15 votes to nine.

"The bill is not fit for purpose, it is not safe, and those advocating for it need to put a lot more work into it and start explaining things, if they are so set in their beliefs." - Kate Lord-Brennan MHK. 

[Shake me up Judy]

It's never going to happen anyway, even if Tynwald voted for it by a majority. The whole thing is a waste of time.

[Roger Mexico]

26 minutes ago, 2112 said:

From the NPM this morning - looks like Manx Care will be involved. How much will it cost the taxpayers? No doubt more civil servants to administer?

You've already mentioned this and if you think about it, it's the worst possible argument against the Bill.  On a purely financial point, anyone who chooses to die in this way will be someone who is already costing Manx Care considerable amounts of money to support them in their condition.  The longer they survive, the bigger the cost. So assisted dying will make that period shorter and so save the taxpayers money.

As to civil servants, there is already a considerable bureaucracy around death (doctors, registrars, coroners, etc) and there's no reason to think it couldn't cope with a small number[1] of the annual total happening a bit differently.

Oddly enough the only cost argument is the reverse of the first.  Some people currently kill themselves because they are afraid of their condition causing them unbearable pain, discomfort and so on as it progresses and so they commit suicide when they are still physically able to do so.  Obviously once dead their condition causes no more expense to the taxpayer.  If they have the back-up of assisted dying, this means they still have agency over their death and will choose to live longer and so cost Manx Care more.  "This Bill will prevent suicides" is not I suspect something its opponents would like to proclaim.

 

[1]  Looking at the Swiss figures for residents (ie excluding Dignitas, though that's much smaller) I reckon it's around 4% and Canada seems similar.  This would equate to about 36 a year in the Island.

[NoTail]

The more I consider this bill the more I am against it.

However in my case I absolutely want someone to put me down when I have an incurable prognosis.  No point in hanging around getting more pain than necessary. 

If I were a medic I would not participate. As a gp friend once said "I have not trained to kill people"

[Two-lane]

Lord-Brennan's quote (which is clearly a one minute clip from a longer speech) seems convoluted.

She does not want the bill to pass, not on the grounds of morality but because it will be difficult to recruit new medical staff. Her proposal to solve this problem is to make euthanasia charity-funded.

 

[cheesypeas]

48 minutes ago, NoTail said:

The more I consider this bill the more I am against it.

However in my case I absolutely want someone to put me down when I have an incurable prognosis.  No point in hanging around getting more pain than necessary. 

If I were a medic I would not participate. As a gp friend once said "I have not trained to kill people"

They wouldn’t be killing anyone, simply ending their suffering. 

[Declan]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

Lord-Brennan's quote (which is clearly a one minute clip from a longer speech) seems convoluted.

She does not want the bill to pass, not on the grounds of morality but because it will be difficult to recruit new medical staff. Her proposal to solve this problem is to make euthanasia charity-funded.

 

How would that work. Even if charity funded (or more likely administered by a charity funded by the Govt), it would not exist in isolation. You'd need to be referred by a doctor. Who but a doctor would be qualified to accept that your condition was terminal or whatever criteria meets the grade. Who but a psychologist or psychiatrist could assess you're mental capacity or whether your choice was your settled will and not the result of depression. And Lord-Brennon's amendment seems to bar Manx Care from supporting the charity even in an administrative capacity. 

[Shake me up Judy]

You're right Declan. It was purely a blocking move anyway. Doctors and health care professionals would have to be directly involved at every stage. I get the sense that they're arranging the pieces to defeat this if Tynwald does vote for it.

[Two-lane]

8 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said:

It was purely a blocking move anyway

In other words it was a political move. I resent MHKs playing political games around this subject.

[Mikimoto]

With all due respect, Kate Lord-Streetflats is barely 40 with a Leeds degree in EU studies...never sure how these people are suddenly qualified to comment on such key issues.

[Fred the shred]

So is Thomas’s move to delay until 2027 which is so transparent, yes let us get in for another term without making an unpopular decision and then we can kick the can again.   All these MHKs are worried about are the own skins. Perhaps Alfie has had a word in Lord Brennan’s shell like.     The perception these people have of the public and their level of intelligence is unbelievable they are so very arrogant they think they fooling us , well they are absolutely not.

[Fred the shred]

Mikimoto I agree but if you look into how qualified the average MHK is to comment on anything you would despair.

[TheTeapot]

There is so much to consider about this, to get it right, that it is likely too hard for our politicians to actually do. And that's not me shitting on them either, it's really really complex. 

Because I'm instinctively for it I've sought out some decent people who are opposed just to hear what they've got to say. It's been interesting. A couple I've broadly dismissed cos they were so religious and I told them so too, but some of the others have really strong valid points. Especially regarding coercion and dementia.

Everyone knows nothing moves fast on the Isle of Man but I sort of feel that this, unusually, perhaps is. 

 

[Fred the shred]

It is going to happen there is no doubt about that , the question is when , do we leave it for a few years and then when England passes the act paper and post it blindly following them as we usually do when we perhaps could have done better ?   Keir Starmer has looked favourably on it so it has been reported and there is little doubt Labour will be in power very soon if Reform do not join with the Conservatives but that is another story.    Young people are on the whole are very much for it from conversations I have had with them but religion seems to have passed them by and large by so no outer influences.