Angela Rayner

[wrighty]

6 hours ago, Max Power said:

I think she's got the abilities to be a better chancellor than we have had recently, she does hide her talents behind what appears to be a carefully cultivated northern labour persona perhaps? 

Unfortunately there is very little that she can do about the UK economy if Labour are elected, although she seems to be having a lot of ideas which are adopted by the conservatives. Hopefully she's got some more up her sleeve which she's holding back before the election so that they can't be inserted into the cons manifesto? 

Are you confusing her with Rachel Reeves, who is Labour’s shadow chancellor? Angela Rayner is deputy leader I believe. 

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, John Wright said:

Wrong end of wrong stick.

What has compliance with the Statute of Frauds, that contracts for the sale of land ( and of guarantee, or surety, or marriage or which cannot be performed within 12 months ) must be evidenced in writing signed by the person to be bound or someone authorised by the person to be bound, got to do with filling in your tax return several months later? Note, the contract for sale of land does not have to be in writing, but evidenced in writing. That’s actually very different.

We are talking about £1500 worth of CGT here, not hundreds of thousands. I sit down with my accountant, give them the figures, they fill out my tax form, explain verbally what I owe, and I check it and sign. The transaction that’s alleged to have gone wrong is a tax return. Do you get written legal, and accountancy advice on your tax return?

But Manxman wasn’t talking about a tax return though was he. He was talking about advice in relation to the purchase and sale of property. Wrong end of stick.

Given the sums involved I myself would think it prudent to have advice relating to property transactions given in writing. That’s what I said.
Of course others may not.

Re my own tax return like most,I complete it myself but as required do retain the  back up documentation for the figures provided.

[manxman1980]

19 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But Manxman wasn’t talking about a tax return though was he. He was talking about advice in relation to the purchase and sale of property. Wrong end of stick.

Given the sums involved I myself would think it prudent to have advice relating to property transactions given in writing. That’s what I said.
Of course others may not.

Re my own tax return like most,I complete it myself but as required do retain the  back up documentation for the figures provided.

I was talking about advice relating to the purchase and sale of a property.  As @John Wright has stated those instances where I have bought and sold property were covered by a contract.  What was never written down was the advice I was given by the Solicitor in relation to some aspects of those transactions.  Specifically I was asking questions about first time buyer status (I had previously owned a property, sold it, rented somewhere and was then buying).  Perhaps I should have had the advice I was given in writing but I did not ask and it was not offered.

In relation to the CGT it is not something I have ever had to take advice on.  I have had my taxes reviewed once by an Accountant in the past but other than going through the tax return and support documentation the advice was never written down.

What seems to be getting lost is that this was 10 years ago.  Angela Rayner was not an MP at the time and the transaction whilst significant for her was one that happens throughout the UK on a regular basis without much issue.  It probably never crossed her mind to think that in 10 years time she might be Deputy Leader and the Labour Party and on the verge of an election win and that it would therefore be advisable to keep a record of the advice given.

The other part that @John Wright may be able to answer is how far back HMRC could go in pursuing this matter?  Is it indefinite or is it time bound given that you don't have to retain details normally after a certain time period.

[Jarndyce]

8 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

The other part that @John Wright may be able to answer is how far back HMRC could go in pursuing this matter?  Is it indefinite or is it time bound given that you don't have to retain details normally after a certain time period.

I heard someone talk about this on a BBC R4 news show yesterday.  IIRC,  I think they said -

20 years if they are pursuing criminal activity 

4 years if a simple, genuine mistake has been made.

6 years if they believe carelessness / insufficient attention to detail has caused the anomaly.

[John Wright]

50 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But Manxman wasn’t talking about a tax return though was he. He was talking about advice in relation to the purchase and sale of property. Wrong end of stick.

Given the sums involved I myself would think it prudent to have advice relating to property transactions given in writing. That’s what I said.
Of course others may not.

Re my own tax return like most,I complete it myself but as required do retain the  back up documentation for the figures provided.

You’re being obtuse.
 

Apart from employing a conveyancer, who is probably qualified at legal executive level, to draw the contract and land registry transfer, what advice, written or otherwise would you take?

She sold. She filled in her tax return, no doubt on the advice of her accountant.

Then, several years later, a Tory tax avoider, who manipulated his domicile status to not pay £100 million plus, and gave huge sums to the Tories ( and in a totally unrelated set of events, no doubt, got given a peerage ) writes a book suggesting she had avoided £1500. She then takes advice. It’s quite usual for advice to be given in conference and not written.

[The Voice of Reason]

13 minutes ago, John Wright said:

You’re being obtuse.
 

Apart from employing a conveyancer, who is probably qualified at legal executive level, to draw the contract and land registry transfer, what advice, written or otherwise would you take?

 

Well she said she took advice on whether the profit on the sale of the property would be subject to CGT.

That sort of advice.

[quilp]

Then there's this aspect...

 

[woolley]

Don't like her especially, but this is clearly a hatchet job by political opponents given that the amount of money is buttons. Nowadays, if you are in these positions, there are people digging dirt on you all the time.

[John Wright]

9 hours ago, quilp said:

Then there's this aspect...

 

That analysis is wrong. You may have many residences and can choose which one to use for electoral registration. What you can’t do is register in more than one constituency and vote more than once.

[John Wright]

9 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well she said she took advice on whether the profit on the sale of the property would be subject to CGT.

That sort of advice.

Years later, after Ashcroft made his allegations.

[quilp]

41 minutes ago, John Wright said:

That analysis is wrong. You may have many residences and can choose which one to use for electoral registration. What you can’t do is register in more than one constituency and vote more than once.

Thanks. Didn't know so just throwing it out there. 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Years later, after Ashcroft made his allegations.

But still the sort of advice you wouldn’t expect a conveyancer to provide, even at the time of the property sale transaction. Which answers your question.

[wrighty]

I quite like Angela Rayner, for what it’s worth. I think she’s a principled politician, and gets an undeserved hard time from the press. 

[Jarndyce]

13 minutes ago, wrighty said:

I quite like Angela Rayner, for what it’s worth. I think she’s a principled politician, and gets an undeserved hard time from the press

She’s Labour front bench - it’s inevitable that the Tory-leaning press will give her a hard time, especially just now.

Having said that, they’re being naive if they believe that this is a dead cat of sufficient mass to detract from the Government’s iniquities.

[Jarndyce]

On 4/7/2024 at 9:25 PM, finlo said:

Not a bad rack if nothing else!

It’s this kind of hard-fought, reasoned political discourse that keeps me coming back here!!