Prostitutes

[matty]

I don't know which is saddest: the fact that so many women feel compelled to make their living this way, or the fact that there appears to be an endless supply of customers for their services.

 

As they say, every woman is sat on a goldmine.

[Lonan3]

Okay, accepting that prostitution is not only a fact of life, but also a perfectly legitimate way of making a living, the whole idea of certain elements of it being illegal, purely to satisfy those dumbnuts who say "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist," is utterly ridiculous.

Obviously, the idea of legalised, licensed and properly-run brothels - providing a degree of protection for those who work in them, plus proper health care facilities and so on - is the most reasonable way to go.

It would mean that soliciting on the streets would have to be dealt with severely, especially in residential areas, so that the facility would exist without the present obvious dangers. It would also require a crackdown on the so-called 'massage parlours' and other establishments that are simply a front for prostitution, where the workers can be threatened and exploited.

In Roman times, the guild of prostitutes was a formidable and legitimate organisation. Because it was properly organised, there was no shame involved in the profession. That is, IMO, a better way forward than trying to wipe out something that is never going to go away.

[localyokel]

I hate that particular word. Its pisses me off that News at Ten must have said the word 'prostitute' about 300 times during their report yesterday. Fair do's, but these women have families and children and its like reinforcing time and time again that your mum was some old slag because she was a 'prostitute'. I mean the murderer is the bad character here - who gives a shit whether they were prostitutes, shop assistants, or tax collectors, they were horrifically murdered in the worse circumstances imaginable and now even in death they just say *Murdered prostitute* rather than *Murdered woman*.

 

The news reporting is really grossly offensive and sensationatist.

 

Worse than even the above you had one of the fathers interviewed yesterday and some ITV fuckwitt actually says 'How do you feel knowing your daughter was a prostitute?'

 

What answer was he expecting? 'I'm right friggin chuffed me, I'm pleased she was a prossy and that she's ended up dead. When her son grows up he'll be dead chuffed that his mum was a dead prossy to'

 

Grossly, grossly, offensive and in very poor taste. These people are grieving and all you get is some berk insinuating time and time a gain that your child was some old slag who had it coming.

 

If its as bad again tonight I'll be turning the TV off.

[Rhumsaa]

that sounds pretty harsh to ask a grieving relative how he felt about the womans profession - a job doesn't define the thousands of other parts of her

[Gladys]

I hate that particular word. Its pisses me off that News at Ten must have said the word 'prostitute' about 300 times during their report yesterday. Fair do's, but these women have families and children and its like reinforcing time and time again that your mum was some old slag because she was a 'prostitute'. I mean the murderer is the bad character here - who gives a shit whether they were prostitutes, shop assistants, or tax collectors, they were horrifically murdered in the worse circumstances imaginable and now even in death they just say *Murdered prostitute* rather than *Murdered woman*.

 

The news reporting is really grossly offensive and sensationatist.

 

Worse than even the above you had one of the fathers interviewed yesterday and some ITV fuckwitt actually says 'How do you feel knowing your daughter was a prostitute?'

 

What answer was he expecting? 'I'm right friggin chuffed me, I'm pleased she was a prossy and that she's ended up dead. When her son grows up he'll be dead chuffed that his mum was a dead prossy to'

 

Grossly, grossly, offensive and in very poor taste. These people are grieving and all you get is some berk insinuating time and time a gain that your child was some old slag who had it coming.

 

If its as bad again tonight I'll be turning the TV off.

 

I agree that it is somewhat insensitive, because the families and friends of the victims knew more than the prositute. But it is an important part of the MO of the killer, obviously.

 

Turning back to the original point of the thread, should prostitution be legalised/regulated? Well as has been pointed out prostitution in itself is not illegal, someone else living off prostitution is and organising the business within premises is also verboten. Regulating and allowing a protective environment can only be the right thing to do. But I would repeat my previous point that that is only one aspect which has to be addressed. The other is that (source The Independent) 98% of prostitutes are drug users. So you can provide a protective environment for one aspect, but what about the other? Not so easy really, is it?

[P.K.]

First hand knowledge on the subject, just to make a change around here, is as follows....

 

Being something of a late developer I did't find myself in a brothel until I was nearly nineteen. It was "The Eros Centre" on the Reeperbahn in Hamburg. The frontage was decorated with a pair of open female legs with the entrance door being in the middle - but I digress The first thing that struck me was just how attractive the women were. They couldn't be more removed from the skanky "Are you looking for business?" streetworkers that used to follow us around like a plague in places like Cardiff. One of our blokes really fancied one and told me it was because she was "real class". It was true, you would be happy to take one home and meet your mum, assuming the conversation didn't progress beyond the weather that is. There was also a pricing structure baced on ethnic origins, not racist but presumably on appeal or whatever...... Your average Anglo-Saxon lady was 50 DM, a lady of African origin was 70 DM and a Chinese or Asian lady was 90 DM. There you go, travel DOES broaden the mind after all. We got chatting to them and they were really nice. Very friendly and good fun. There was NEVER any suggestion that they were being exploited or whatever. But then Germany does have a much more mature outlook on sex compared to a culture that had white and dark meat instead of breast and leg. It was only many years later that I realised that not only were these ladies not being exploited but, in fact, THEY were exploiting US!

 

Before any naughty could take place they all had to show their card that they were clean of STD and recently stamped so to speak. This also meant, of course, that they were not hop-heads. Now Germany has it's drug problems and street prostitutes that have a habit to feed. But even these were mostly either in brothels, clubs or had minders - predominantly Turks. I guess they just have a flair for running sex industries. So to my mind there are two factors here. Druggies that sell themselves to feed a habit are on the streets and very vulnerable plus making brothels slightly more acceptable (with associated NIMBY protests) and then ALL the girls have more protection. BUT as in Germany a lot of the druggies will still be on the streets. But Germany et al seem to have far fewer Eastern European women coerced into prostitution. Probably because it is not driven underground by legislation so it's hard to keep it under wraps. In a way it's refreshing that someone can bring a case to court because a hard core porn film he has purchased does not contain enough explicit material (he won by the way).

 

A recent survey in Ipswich showed that 95% of the girls have a drug habit. It's hard to know which came first though. Prostitution to feed the habit or the habit so they can put up with the prostitution. Either way, drugs have a LOT to answer for.

 

One disturbing aspect for me about this nutter is the search by the plods for DNA evidence. Surely that tends to mean no sexual assault. That lends me to believe it's all about power, domination, revenge, whatever. Very very sick. Let's hope they get them and soon.

[Gladys]

Although I have not read up on the Ipswich thing in detail, a recurring theme does seem to be no sexual assault. As far as domination, revenge etc. I doubt that makes any difference as far as motive, as the domination will be in the act of killing. But on the one hand, they seem to be very precautious in that little DNA evidence is left, but on the other, the leaving of bodies in increasingly exposed areas does seem to point to someone who is trying to be caught. From what little I have read about these things, the 'killing spree' is also a symptom of wanting to be stopped.

 

Put bets on the likely profile - a rather ordinary and uninteresting person, sexually repressed or physiologically dysfunctional, but in a relationship of sorts. In other words, an unremarkable person that you never really felt very comfortable with.

[nessa]

A recent survey in Ipswich showed that 95% of the girls have a drug habit. It's hard to know which came first though. Prostitution to feed the habit or the habit so they can put up with the prostitution. Either way, drugs have a LOT to answer for.

 

As I am overseas - the only information I know about these Ipswich killings are the occasional media reports so I cannot comment on the TV coverage sorry - but guess I am not surprised sadly

 

At the moment where I am a different topic is getting an occasional mention in the local media world ie drug raping of multiple victims and it is noted that even teetotallers are waking up battered or bruised with no memories etc!! Sadly having both the *legal* and the many unofficial brothels on hand appears to have done sweet FA with respect to promoting the safety of women or children where I am etc

 

However what seems worse is that many of the victims appear to be rarely contacting the police direct [no confidence or other reasons sadly] and are instead it seems trying their best to develop self help coping skills etc As some of the assaults have required hospitalisation and medical care - it also seems it will be months before the substance is even identified etc

 

Guess my POV is still not in support of brothels as a way to protect prostitutes better - as all I see [where I am] is many more children having to cope with assaults and street abortions etc Mind you tho I would admit this could be due to the greater use of the internet and mobile phones by predators too - Things have just got worse not better imho

[Slim]

First hand knowledge on the subject, just to make a change around here, is as follows....

 

Um, are you so arrogant to think you're the only one who's been to germany? My opinion on legalising brothels comes from having seen the way they operate in other countries. It's one of the things us manxies do in particular is go to a red light district and just gawp because we rarely see one!

[Lonan3]

Being something of a late developer I did't find myself in a brothel until I was nearly nineteen. It was "The Eros Centre" on the Reeperbahn in Hamburg. The frontage was decorated with a pair of open female legs with the entrance door being in the middle - but I digress The first thing that struck me was just how attractive the women were. They couldn't be more removed from the skanky "Are you looking for business?" streetworkers that used to follow us around like a plague in places like Cardiff. One of our blokes really fancied one and told me it was because she was "real class". It was true, you would be happy to take one home and meet your mum, assuming the conversation didn't progress beyond the weather that is. There was also a pricing structure baced on ethnic origins, not racist but presumably on appeal or whatever...... Your average Anglo-Saxon lady was 50 DM, a lady of African origin was 70 DM and a Chinese or Asian lady was 90 DM. There you go, travel DOES broaden the mind after all. We got chatting to them and they were really nice. Very friendly and good fun. There was NEVER any suggestion that they were being exploited or whatever. But then Germany does have a much more mature outlook on sex compared to a culture that had white and dark meat instead of breast and leg. It was only many years later that I realised that not only were these ladies not being exploited but, in fact, THEY were exploiting US!

 

Before any naughty could take place they all had to show their card that they were clean of STD and recently stamped so to speak. This also meant, of course, that they were not hop-heads. Now Germany has it's drug problems and street prostitutes that have a habit to feed. But even these were mostly either in brothels, clubs or had minders - predominantly Turks. I guess they just have a flair for running sex industries. So to my mind there are two factors here. Druggies that sell themselves to feed a habit are on the streets and very vulnerable plus making brothels slightly more acceptable (with associated NIMBY protests) and then ALL the girls have more protection. BUT as in Germany a lot of the druggies will still be on the streets. But Germany et al seem to have far fewer Eastern European women coerced into prostitution. Probably because it is not driven underground by legislation so it's hard to keep it under wraps.

 

That seems a pretty comprehensive view of the way it works and seems to confirm what many people are saying - namely that it's the hangover from hypocritical Victorian moral values that is, ultimately, creating a situation in which those who work in the sex industry in the UK are denegrated and forced to operate in a dangerous environment.

As you say, there will always be the NIMBY protests if anything sensible and forward-looking is attempted, but well-run establishments in the right locales are surely preferable to young women having no protection or safeguards from the nutters and mysogynists who wish to harm or even kill them.

[keyboarder]

It's one of the things us manxies do in particular is go to a red light district and just gawp because we rarely see one!

 

Just to clarify on this point, not all of us do this.

[Slim]

Aye, you just stand in the high street "lol'ing" at people like an idiot.

[Rhumsaa]

I wonder if you actually say "lol"?

[Juan Kerr]

Put bets on the likely profile - a rather ordinary and uninteresting person, sexually repressed or physiologically dysfunctional, but in a relationship of sorts.

 

Yep. Definately a bloke.

[P.K.]

First hand knowledge on the subject, just to make a change around here, is as follows....

Um, are you so arrogant to think you're the only one who's been to germany? My opinion on legalising brothels comes from having seen the way they operate in other countries. It's one of the things us manxies do in particular is go to a red light district and just gawp because we rarely see one!

Don't be such an arrogant prick yourself, calling anyone who has used brothels "arrogant" is something of a contradiction in terms. I mean, have you just "seen" them Slim (your word) or have you "used" them as I have leading to "first hand" knowledge?

 

By the way, I've also been all over the world and experienced how they operate in different cultures. So to answer your question strange but true NO I don't think I'm the only person who posts on here who has ever been to Germany.

 

Dear me, the lengths some tossers will go to just to take a pop. Maybe they should get out more....