keyboarder Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I fear that you may be right unfortunately. The way things are going we shall have to find illegal outlets for our need for danger and excitement! When you say 'our' I hope you don't include me - I have no need of danger thanks, illegal or otherwise .......; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I can imagine that the spectators and marshals would have thought they would have been perfectly safe on the Ramsey side of the layby. They may well have done but what they thought should be irrelevent if the area was a restricted area as I presume this means people are not allowed in this area. We need to wait for all the evidence to unfold to understand why people were in the area if it was restricted but as a principal if an area is restricted surely that should be end of the matter whether or not if XY or Z thought it was safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Freak accident? If you have very high performance motorcycles racing flat out around poorly designed country lanes within feet of the spectators then people are going to get killed on a regular basis. That may be the case with regard to racers, or those that race around on open roads afterwards. It should not apply to those spectating on either a regular ior an infrequent basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I fear that you may be right unfortunately. The way things are going we shall have to find illegal outlets for our need for danger and excitement! When you say 'our' I hope you don't include me - I have no need of danger thanks, illegal or otherwise .......; ) No not at all, I just meant humanity in general! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccm Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Brandish, 26th Milestone .....was there not an incident went a bike or its engine went through someone's roof at Glen Vine a few years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyboarder Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 From MR A triple inquest has heard how two spectators killed on the last day of racing at the centenary TT were standing in a prohibited zone. Thirty-three year-old Dean Jacob, of Kidderminster and 52 year-old Gregory Kenzig, from Australia died on June 8 last year in an incident involving newcomer Marc Ramsbotham from Norfolk, who also died. Coroner of inquests Michael Moyle showed video footage of the incident, when Mr Ramsbotham’s bike flew up an embankment into the two men. But mystery still surrounds whether or not signs had been put up warning people out of the area. Jason Roberts reports: Contractors Kissack Brothers have been putting up signs around the TT course for the last 30 years, but employee Ian Baxter-Ross of Ballasalla said he didn’t cover the Mountain section. He said he had never put signs up at the 26th Milestone, where the accident happened, and wasn’t aware of anybody else being asked to do so. TT Course Maintenance Officer Michael Dean insisted he had seen signs during an inspection the evening before the Senior race. But he admitted he had only driven past the site and couldn’t say for certain whether or not they had been there on the day of the race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I have no need of danger thanks, illegal or otherwise .......; ) You may struggle to find a consensus on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 The only good thing that can hopefully come out of this is that there is a root and branch review of safety, procedures etc and far from this being a "freak" accident it is an accident that can not happen again. If the correct procedures are put in place there should be no circumstances in which spectators can find themselves in a restricted area unknowingly and if they are there knowingly the appropriate action should be taken to protect their safety e.g. by yellow flags to slow the bikes, until they have been removed. thay have been looked at and sorted out, the way it is going to be now is a prohibited zone is nobody is allowed in that area exept race officals, but thay do so at there own risk, restricted zone is noboody even race officals are not allowed in this zone, anybody found in this zone will be asked to be moved and if thay do not agree then all races will be stopped, intill said person is moved from area, ie if u refuse to move u going to get arrest, these are the new way there trying to do it now, and this applys for all motorsport events, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 thay have been looked at and sorted out,the way it is going to be now is a prohibited zone is nobody is allowed in that area exept race officals, but thay do so at there own risk, restricted zone is noboody even race officals are not allowed in this zone, anybody found in this zone will be asked to be moved and if thay do not agree then all races will be stopped, intill said person is moved from area, ie if u refuse to move u going to get arrest, these are the new way there trying to do it now, and this applys for all motorsport events, Good but it is disappointing that we had to have a fatal accident to make the above the case. However it is generally the case in life we get complacent from over familiarisation and need something to shake us out of that when in reality we need to take a step back every now and again and review from scratch. The rules you outline, the requirement for better flags on ropes after the accident at Quarterbridge should all have ideally been picked picked up and implemented prior to an incident happy. This is something that the TT organisors need to address as you get the feeling that unfortunately they are reactive rather than proactive on certain matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 If you remember, the very next day there was an incident at the Steam Packet Races at the Billown circuit. A bike which was out of control hit a wall and careered back across the road into spectators. Two were airlifted to Nobles from this incident. In my opinion these spectators were in a far safer area than those at the 26th. In reality though an out of control motorcycle at racing speed could end up anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I can understand the debate as to whether the correct signs were in place or not, but the danger aspect is pointed out in the programme apart from various places around the Island and is common knowledge among enthusiasts anyway. People are quite aware of how accidents happen in a dangerous sport and must use their own discretion and common sense. People seem content to watch people risk their lives in a well known dangerous event as though they were at an amusement park. You must take responsibility for your own safety and wellbeing. Trusting fate is not an option. Falling back on the fact that 'nobody told me I had to be careful' is just plain stupid. It's always easy to be wise after the event, so the responsibility for these things rests with everyone who can forsee danger and does nothing about it, including members of the general public who are so keen to condemn others after the event although they obviously knew better all along themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ade Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I wasn't aware that was a restricted area? The way I understood it was if you spectate any motorsport event the outside of any corner is always a restricted area, as that is the area that a car/bike will end up if its out of control, to be honest i did not think they used that lay-by TT week for that reason. any area marked red would be a dangerous place to spectate this pic was copied from a rally website but same rules apply in all special stage events. These markings would seem to me to be common sense, but in that case how is the area at the bottom of Bray Hill not restricted? The one way road that leads to the traffic lights at the bottom of the hill seems very exposed to any failures or high speed accidents. I'm amazed people can still go and sit or stand down there to watch the bikes flying towards them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Like The Moon Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 There will be next to no decent places to watch the TT this year I fear. I have heard speculation that most of the bank (if not all) at Rhencullen will be closed off to spectators as well as most of Alpine - both of which are really popular places to watch the bikes no where to watch - whats the point in people coming over - and alas eventually the end of the TT as we know it (not that I mind that much because personally I can't stand the inconvenience of it) but hey ho - My Tuppence worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We Like The Moon Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Another Idea Don't let them off the boat until they sign a disclaimer along the lines of..... I the undersigned accept the following risks during my stay in the Isle of Man for TT fortnight (a) I will pay 5 times the going rate for travel and accomodation (b) I will pay through the nose for tacky merchandise © Iwill pay through the nose for convenience food (d) It is likely that I will be involved in a horrific high speed motorcycle accident (e) When watching the races I may witness the horrifice premature end to someones life (f) When watching the races my own life may come to a premature end in a horrific manner I fully accept these risks but still want to come - TT Rules!! Signed Joe Bloggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 These markings would seem to me to be common sense, but in that case how is the area at the bottom of Bray Hill not restricted? The one way road that leads to the traffic lights at the bottom of the hill seems very exposed to any failures or high speed accidents. I don't agree - you can always take safety to the nth degree, but the speed/line at the bottom Bray Hill is highly unlikely to cause that kind of exposure to spectators. Though you can never rule anything out, the marshalls and police have years of experience, riders and spectators at the event alike are regularly warned of the dangers of motorcycle racing, and marshalls do their best to avoid allowing people to just sit/stand anywhere based on 100 years of experience. Those who don't like it should stay at home, close their eyes and hide behind the settee. Not for the squeamish clicky - which shows where exactly you mean. Rider was taken to hospital with 'injuries not too serious'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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