wheels Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Never heard so much bollocks. Give Bell five years and you'll hear a load more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
censorship Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 quite. If he didn't post on here he would be dismissed as a novice clown, like the rest, Even though I don't think his posting on here has been particularly impressive, I have to agree; perhaps not as a 'novice clown', but there wouldn't be quite so much fawning going on. That said, such fawning is overinflated by his on call cheerleading team on here. Yes, clown was unfair. However, he is a novice in parliament, has no governmental experience and, apart from bieng a bit of a critic of the last administration, I have yet to see anything from him which makes him stand out from the crowd. Still remains the case that he is getting an easy ride on here because he posts here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 That said, such fawning is overinflated by his on call cheerleading team on here. Whose in the cheerleading team? Not me. I just prefer him to Bell who thanks to the lack of a cogent alternative seems most likely to be foisted on us. Good news no doubt for office supply companies. And all those HNWI who have flocked here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Yes, clown was unfair. However, he is a novice in parliament, has no governmental experience and, apart from bieng a bit of a critic of the last administration, I have yet to see anything from him which makes him stand out from the crowd. Still remains the case that he is getting an easy ride on here because he posts here I do agree with with you (though as I say, his performance on here only strengthens my view that he's not a credible candidate for the role of Chief Minister). In my view, the esteem in which Robertshaw is held is largely based on the same wonky received wisdom and public image gloss that's served Bell so well over the years. That said, I do wonder if we're making a bit much of government experience as a prerequisite. Elsewhere in the world, it's not particularly unusual to see changes of government bringing in people who've had no previous role in government, even in the top jobs. To my mind, our caution and that of our MHKs in this respect goes a long way to ensuring that we always end up with the same kind of Government throughout the years as successive Chief Ministers are plucked from the ranks of the previous governments and they appoint members from that previous government and/or like minded individuals (and kick out the trouble makers). The danger of this culture is that we end up with a government who, though the faces may change slightly, adheres to an outlook and a philosophy that becomes fossilized over the years and feels an obligation to protect or obscure the sins and mistakes of the past. Whose in the cheerleading team? Not me. Well, Biggles and Sean do look lovely with their pom poms, though the chant isn't much cop: "Give us a C! Give us an E! Give us an O! He ran a hotel! Yay!" Doesn't quite have the same ring as "Go Broncos". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Doesn't seem to be much support for anyone else Anyway, MHKs on Twitter seem to suggest that dastardly deed is being done & AB is a shoe in ps my pom pom is orange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 That said, I do wonder if we're making a bit much of government experience as a prerequisite. Elsewhere in the world, it's not particularly unusual to see changes of government bringing in people who've had no previous role in government, even in the top jobs. To my mind, our caution and that of our MHKs in this respect goes a long way to ensuring that we always end up with the same kind of Government throughout the years as successive Chief Ministers are plucked from the ranks of the previous governments and they appoint members from that previous government and/or like minded individuals (and kick out the trouble makers). The danger of this culture is that we end up with a government who, though the faces may change slightly, adheres to an outlook and a philosophy that becomes fossilized over the years and feels an obligation to protect or obscure the sins and mistakes of the past. The pitfalls of staid and risk averse mindsets. Does this indicate a need for a P-Y Gerbeau type CM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 The worst scenario is that Henderson or Houghton get their paws on the buses and every bus will have to travel to the destination planned via Willaston as I am assured that this was Bill and Bens election promise to the good people of Willaston in exchange for their vote. I think we have the best bus service on the Island, you can now get on a direct service to Port St. Mary from Onchan.... I jest ye not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Do you not feel that there is an interesting parallel here with the ongoing Douglas East court case, and Allan Bell's attempt to influence the vote for CM by offering rewards and largesse in return for votes ? He has no national mandate to do so, and as yet is only elected by the people of Ramsey. Those who would see it as no more than equivalent to the backroom deals and horsetrading of the Coalition government in the U.K. need to think again. They are nationally elected parties with the mandate of the whole electorate. Until the Chief Minister is elected our electoral process is unfinished and incomplete, and it is at best questionable if this sort of practice is any more legitimate than standing outside a polling booth with a fistful of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Do you not feel that there is an interesting parallel here with the ongoing Douglas East court case, and Allan Bell's attempt to influence the vote for CM by offering rewards and largesse in return for votes ? He has no national mandate to do so, and as yet is only elected by the people of Ramsey. Those who would see it as no more than equivalent to the backroom deals and horsetrading of the Coalition government in the U.K. need to think again. They are nationally elected parties with the mandate of the whole electorate. Until the Chief Minister is elected our electoral process is unfinished and incomplete, and it is at best questionable if this sort of practice is any more legitimate than standing outside a polling booth with a fistful of money. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groudleho Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Do you not feel that there is an interesting parallel here with the ongoing Douglas East court case, and Allan Bell's attempt to influence the vote for CM by offering rewards and largesse in return for votes ? He has no national mandate to do so, and as yet is only elected by the people of Ramsey. Those who would see it as no more than equivalent to the backroom deals and horsetrading of the Coalition government in the U.K. need to think again. They are nationally elected parties with the mandate of the whole electorate. Until the Chief Minister is elected our electoral process is unfinished and incomplete, and it is at best questionable if this sort of practice is any more legitimate than standing outside a polling booth with a fistful of money. +3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Those who would see it as no more than equivalent to the backroom deals and horsetrading of the Coalition government in the U.K. need to think again. They are nationally elected parties with the mandate of the whole electorate. Unless I am missing something, the very existence of Coalition Governments is down to the fact that no one 'Party' achieved a sufficient 'mandate' from the electorate. Add to this that, there are great swathes of the UK that did not vote Tory / Lib Dem, so to claim any national mandate from the whole electorate is frankly ludicrous. Now, I accept that there are various arguments for political reform on the Island, and the failings in the current system. However, given the very system that they are working with, then what is being claimed with regards to Alan Bell seeking 'support' is exactly what you would expect to see. I can assure you now that PK will be doing exactly the same thing. In fact, if you took it a bit further, if PK did become Chief Minister, he would look to appoint his party members to some form of office. In essence, they have pledged their 'allegiance' to the LVP (and therefore him) in return for their support in the elections(and vice versa). How is that different to horse trading amongst elected politicians? Whilst LVP did well to get three MHK's, they were utterly rejected in the various other constitencies in which they stood. Therefore, do they have any greater 'National Mandate'? It is a coalition in it's purest form. Deal making and bargaining is an essential part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This whole epsiode may prove the validity of the pre election criticism on here of the quality of the candidates standing as MHKs I'm was no fan at all of that fat oaf from Castletown but I suspect the replacement will be worse - if that's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Login Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Do you not feel that there is an interesting parallel here with the ongoing Douglas East court case, and Allan Bell's attempt to influence the vote for CM by offering rewards and largesse in return for votes ? He has no national mandate to do so, and as yet is only elected by the people of Ramsey. Those who would see it as no more than equivalent to the backroom deals and horsetrading of the Coalition government in the U.K. need to think again. They are nationally elected parties with the mandate of the whole electorate. Until the Chief Minister is elected our electoral process is unfinished and incomplete, and it is at best questionable if this sort of practice is any more legitimate than standing outside a polling booth with a fistful of money. I think they are totally different. The East Douglas case appears to be about the use of proxy/absent votes. What Bell is apparantly doing and I guess Karran also is not really different than from what any wannabe MHK or Commissioner does at most elections which is make you promises in return for your vote. That may be spending more in your area, not increasing taxes, stoping redundancies or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 It is a coalition in it's purest form. Deal making and bargaining is an essential part of it. No it's not, it's about what's in it for the new Minister personally, it's got jack shit to do with interest of the country/nation. At least the LVP had a common platform.... none of the others did (as far as I'm aware). SMUJ is right.... you might as well stand outside the doors of Tynwald with a wad of notes..it's prostitution at it's worst..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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