Chief Minister: Allan Bell V Peter Karran

[Addie]

I suspect what will happen is that a few will vote for AB and the LV two will vote for PK and many will spoil their papers in order that there's a second round when John Shimmin will enter the race. I think JS would be OK as CM with AB back at Treasury where he was happy and Eddie Teare at DED. I understand, from a very reliable source who wanted Annie Craine for CM, that AB isn't a good team player.

I would be disgusted if any of them to spoiled their papers. They are paid to have a view. If we spoiled our papers, we wouldn't be allowed a second/third chance.

 

Surely it's more important for a CM to be a good team leader rather than team player?

 

Regarding Peter Karran, the image of him being CM is beyond reality. Much is made of his popularity with the people of Onchan. If Onchan voters had one vote, only then would we have an accurate picture of his popularity.

[Chinahand]

For me this sad process shows up the problems with the Island's political system.

 

Tynwald is too small to provide any effective form of opposition, as a result it will always be senior members of the last Comin who will be dominant - other than the Speaker where Mr Rodan seems to be following a Brown strategy - sit quiet in a wig, but become well known, while members of Comin have to deal with events (dear boy, events).

 

So this election consists of the biggest surviving hitter and the only politician who has made a career out of saying no to everything comin has done.

 

There is no way whatsoever Mr Karran is upto the job so it has to be Bell, unless there are some real spoilt paper shenanigans - but with two such imbalanced candidates, I'm doubtful anything will happen - alot of MHKs will have to spoil their votes to stop Bell getting a majority - how many are really going to vote for Karran?

 

Is Bell suitable? I'm honestly not sure.

 

I feel he was fully aware that the IOM's vat agreement was over generous - I can remember him highlighting its importance to the Island's economy.

 

Knowing the gravy train couldn't go on, has he been sensible in managing the purse strings at a sustainable level, or has he expanded government unsustainably with serious consequences when the gravy train stops.

 

I'm sure he'll say he used the extra VAT money to build better infrastructure etc. but lack of control and oversight let these balloon massively, and the Civil service ballooned too, leaving a much larger state to be paid for even when these infrastructure proejcts come to an end.

 

Now we are facing the bust, there is some justice in Bell having to sort it out - but also the bust is as bad as it is due to his earlier management of the public purse.

 

Is he up to the job? I've no idea.

 

I'll say he's an experienced IOM politician who does have a certain amount of gravitas - more than Brown at any rate!

 

But I am very disappointed that there is not going to be a real contest, where the candidates have to lay out proper realistic policies etc.

 

Karran isn't up to that, and Bell will be able to stick to platitudes and waffle and still be elected.

 

Tynwald has to be reformed to give a better separation of powers with the centre of gravity moved away from Comin dominance.

 

Or else there will never be a break from the old regime and a genuine contest of policies rather than waffle and personalities.

[Capt W E Johns]

I'm beginning to think that a presidential style system might be a better option

[tynwaldhill2]

I suspect what will happen is that a few will vote for AB and the LV two will vote for PK and many will spoil their papers in order that there's a second round when John Shimmin will enter the race. I think JS would be OK as CM with AB back at Treasury where he was happy and Eddie Teare at DED. I understand, from a very reliable source who wanted Annie Craine for CM, that AB isn't a good team player.

I would be disgusted if any of them to spoiled their papers. They are paid to have a view. If we spoiled our papers, we wouldn't be allowed a second/third chance.

 

Surely it's more important for a CM to be a good team leader rather than team player?

 

Regarding Peter Karran, the image of him being CM is beyond reality. Much is made of his popularity with the people of Onchan. If Onchan voters had one vote, only then would we have an accurate picture of his popularity.

 

There's no way that PK will be CM, in fact I'm really surprised that he's allowed his name to go forward as it will be humilitating for him.

 

I'm a bit surprised that you seem surprised that any of them might spoil their voting papers, that's what happened last time and we ended up with TB. I agree that there will have to be many spoilt papers this time but there are many in there now who definitely don't want AB.

 

I agree it's important to be a good team leader but you also need to bring your team along with you and if the CM is acting more like a dictator then that's not good. (See ref to AB). I see the CM as someone who can bring together all the Ministers in CoMin, take on their ideas whilst still having strong views of his own as to where the Island should be going and represent the Island successfully . We don't want some authoritarian who tries to bully his ministers into going his way all the time.

 

I think JS would be able to do this very successfully.

[Silentbob]

Whoever gets in should be immediately shoot and/or arrested to avoid future crimes against our economy.

[cheeky boy]

AB may well turn out to be a bully, but we need someone who can stand up to the civil servants more than we need a nice guy

[Tugger]

A choice between Bell and Karran is like a choice between death by poison or slitting your throat.

[manxie44]

the UK press will have a field day recalling some of things he's been responsible for in the past and using it as proof-positive that this island of ours inevitably rewards corruption and deceit.

 

You really think so? I think the UK press will not give a rats ass what we do and who is chosen to run something akin to a local parish council in the UK.

 

They really should be concentrating on the band of dodgy politicians of their own, past and present. Dodgy dossiers, indebting the country in the region of 1 trillion £, fiddling expenses and so on.

 

I love this Island in many ways, but we need to realise how insignficant we are to the UK.

 

Here Here, a little less self-importance, and learning to keeps our mouths shut [ ie - stop bragging about how well of we are] and a lot more honesty, of which Peter has bucketfuls would help. Sadly Peter is not the best speaker in the world, but mabye his honesty overcomes Mr Bells ability to tell the' right people' what they want to hear. However I am sick of hearing him telling us how important it is to have someone with the right skills as Chief Minister. ie - Mr Bell. Whatever happens, do nor dare to go to the Legislative Council for a candidate, the people did'nt vote for them.

[censorship]

I don't think Peter will win, but I think Bell will struggle as well. He has pissed off plenty of other members, ones who know they won't get a job off him, he is known to have dictatorial style and there are others who would object to him on a more personal level.

For instance, I don't think Houghton, Henderson, Brenda, Singer and Anderson would vote for him, and I'm not convinced about some of the new boys, like Quayle, Cannan and Skelly. With Karran, Hall and Beecroft not voting for him he is going to be lucky to get 13 - anyone know how many you need?

That could easily open the way for Rodan or Shimmin to emerge - Brown-like - as saviour of the nation

[tynwaldhill2]

AB may well turn out to be a bully, but we need someone who can stand up to the civil servants more than we need a nice guy

 

 

OK will give you that but don't underestimate the "niceness" of JS. He's tougher than you think, and no I'm not his Mum!!

[tynwaldhill2]

the UK press will have a field day recalling some of things he's been responsible for in the past and using it as proof-positive that this island of ours inevitably rewards corruption and deceit.

You really think so? I think the UK press will not give a rats ass what we do and who is chosen to run something akin to a local parish council in the UK. They really should be concentrating on the band of dodgy politicians of their own, past and present. Dodgy dossiers, indebting the country in the region of 1 trillion £, fiddling expenses and so on. I love this Island in many ways, but we need to realise how insignficant we are to the UK.

Here Here, a little less self-importance, and learning to keeps our mouths shut [ ie - stop bragging about how well of we are] and a lot more honesty, of which Peter has bucketfuls would help. Sadly Peter is not the best speaker in the world, but mabye his honesty overcomes Mr Bells ability to tell the' right people' what they want to hear. However I am sick of hearing him telling us how important it is to have someone with the right skills as Chief Minister. ie - Mr Bell. Whatever happens, do nor dare to go to the Legislative Council for a candidate, the people did'nt vote for them.

 

I fear that the new CM will go to LegCo for Ministers. Which in my humble opinion would be a slap in the face of the people, especially as we've just voted in the general election, which would mean we've just voted and now we have a government of un-elected members. Watch out for Dudley Butt getting something.

[manxie44]

I may be wrong hear but I believe both Steve Rodan and John Shimmin failed last time to convince their fellow MHKs to back them. Will the new Members make any significant difference if either of both join the IOMX Factor.

[Addie]

 

There's no way that PK will be CM, in fact I'm really surprised that he's allowed his name to go forward as it will be humilitating for him.

 

I'm a bit surprised that you seem surprised that any of them might spoil their voting papers, that's what happened last time and we ended up with TB. I agree that there will have to be many spoilt papers this time but there are many in there now who definitely don't want AB.

 

I agree it's important to be a good team leader but you also need to bring your team along with you and if the CM is acting more like a dictator then that's not good. (See ref to AB). I see the CM as someone who can bring together all the Ministers in CoMin, take on their ideas whilst still having strong views of his own as to where the Island should be going and represent the Island successfully . We don't want some authoritarian who tries to bully his ministers into going his way all the time.

 

I think JS would be able to do this very successfully.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised if manipulative members spoiled their papers, but as I said, I would be disgusted. I know that happened last time, and I'm surprised that such an unsatisfactory system has been kept in place to allow a repeat of the fiasco.

 

I agree that John Shimmin has a great deal going with him and I feel that he has grown in stature. On a direct level, I have had dealings with him twice (on other people's behalf) and was very impressed by his sympathetic and speedy response to the problems.

 

During this election, I contacted Allan Bell a couple of times and he responded well. I was also happy with response to our grilling when he called. There is no doubt that the man has experience in government and with finance. I think that we need that in the difficult times ahead. I think as CM he will work with his team.

 

As for Karran, I cannot imagine any right minded soul voting for him as their one and only representative.

[Moghrey Mie]

Didn't the UK make the mistake of putting a treasury guy ( Gordon Brown) into Number 10?

[Albert Tatlock]

I agree it's important to be a good team leader...

Then can someone please remind Peter Karran that there's no " i " "blah blah blah waffle waffle blah blah blah gibber gibber blah youre all against me blah blah rubbish rhubarb blah blah" in "Team".