craggy_steve Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, well, we see it all the time. Private businesses putting up adverts here on the island, all the while never intending to employ anyone local, already having someone in mind from their UK office. Look closely and you'll see supposedly reputable IoM businesses advertising IoM-based jobs in the UK and elsewhere without ever advertising them on the island. Some so-called IoM companies give the impression of being too arrogant to employ locals, and some are clearly not prepared to train or grow their own. Some of the most loyal and supportive employers of IoM residents have been established and are run by comeovers, there are no fixed patterns. Sad, but no different to recruitment attitudes in the UK. Not sure why Gov't should care much though, as long as they are employed here, paying ITIP, NI, VAT & Duty, then where they come from is of little significance, we apparently have very low unemployment*. *albeit only because many of those who would otherwise be unemployed either take work well below their skill/qualification level or set up new businesses / freelance & temp in preference to the dole or leaving the island. I am in two minds about employment protection - either we should do it properly and vigorously enforce the letter & spirit of the law, or drop it entirely. One thing is certain, as in the UK there are some employers on the island who will never invest in developing and up-skilling their people while they can buy ready-made off the shelf from elsewhere, and rigorous enforcement of employment protection would seem to be the only way of changing their attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Another thing: why do we have an Education Department which has pushed for work permit rule changes to encourage more UK teachers here, when it's been claimed on here (and I've heard others say it to me personally) that there are quite a few locals who are qualified and not being employed. What is that all about? On the contrary I see people drifting up to be head teachers here who would probably not stand a chance in UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homarus Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, well, we see it all the time. Private businesses putting up adverts here on the island, all the while never intending to employ anyone local, already having someone in mind from their UK office. Look closely and you'll see supposedly reputable IoM businesses advertising IoM-based jobs in the UK and elsewhere without ever advertising them on the island. Some so-called IoM companies give the impression of being too arrogant to employ locals, and some are clearly not prepared to train or grow their own. Some of the most loyal and supportive employers of IoM residents have been established and are run by comeovers, there are no fixed patterns. Sad, but no different to recruitment attitudes in the UK. Not sure why Gov't should care much though, as long as they are employed here, paying ITIP, NI, VAT & Duty, then where they come from is of little significance, we apparently have very low unemployment*. *albeit only because many of those who would otherwise be unemployed either take work well below their skill/qualification level or set up new businesses / freelance & temp in preference to the dole or leaving the island. I am in two minds about employment protection - either we should do it properly and vigorously enforce the letter & spirit of the law, or drop it entirely. One thing is certain, as in the UK there are some employers on the island who will never invest in developing and up-skilling their people while they can buy ready-made and cheaper off the shelf from elsewhere, and rigorous enforcement of employment protection would seem to be the only way of changing their attitudes. fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm of a similar mind Steve. The problem with protection is it's either difficult to enforce or provides positive discrimination for the locals and you end up with crap employees and rejecting good ones to appease legislation. There's definitely good reasons for protecting an indigenous workforce, a highly skilled migrant workforce is a huge risk as it'll bugger off at a moments notice. Doing that without holding business back is tough, and the employment market generally seems to be moving towards contractor specialists per project vs long term employees. I wish I had the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infrequent Observer Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 As for protecting jobsworths, that's simply not true. The civil service is rife with jobsworths and most of them are from the UK. And before "Infrequent Observer" comes along, I am citing myself as the source of that claim. I've worked in enough departments in my time. Well if you are the source, it must be true. After all your record of being straight, honest and truthful on these forums is beyond question. I would ask how, in your short but varied CS career, you were able to 'know' who, out of all those in the CS, were comeovers and who were born here? Did you work in HR? Just curious IO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I have tried to give work to Island based companies and the lazy fuckers can't even bother to turn up and quote. They are however the first to moan when an off island company turns up. In the main they appear to be content with the work they have and that is fine but don't object if somebody else does it instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Actually, Dax has a point. I needed a tiler, I tried to use some friends of friends on Facebook tiler people, didn't even bother to turn up to quote. Gary the Irish tiler sorted it right out, came round, gave an excellent quote and did a splendid job, also popping round ad hoc to give Mrbees pointers. Top lad and not Manx. We also need a new roof, had some Port St Mary lot do the mini roof over the bay a couple of years ago - they have a "NEVER AGAIN" by them in the phone book, charged us their time because they needed to got their merchants in Castletown because they hadn't bought enough tiles....charged us for their travelling time, lunch time, I was generous when noting their hours worked, the bill still came in about 4 hours more than expected, we've waited and waited to find a roofer with a good reputation and have found one, he is Scottish. I hate to say it but my experience of Manx builders leaves me with a really bad head ache and an empty purse. The general builder guy, oh, he was a beaut, wore glasses so people would trust him, no invoice, demanded cash with menace, did a mediocre job and eugh, I just hate people who think they have one up on you, no no fatty arbuckle that is not the case, you may have over charged us by £200 but my mouth is massive and I will tell anyone who will listen how you are, it will cost them more in the long run...oh and then there was the plasterer who needed scaffold to do our bedroom ceiling, then told us "Any one knows you need to sand a newly plastered ceiling" when I complained the plastering was a total flaming mess, stupid little asshole (he was actually Scottish but we won't go into it). Do away with work permits, that would save plenty money on admin & paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 http://www.gov.im/media/888332/quarterly_economic_report_july-september_2013.pdf Numbers of permits at the bottom of page 11. Good point Bees. Do we really need all that paper shuffling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossils Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I would be interested to hear how many are directly employed in staffing the current WP system. A guesstimate, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I would be interested to hear how many are directly employed in staffing the current WP system. A guesstimate, anyone? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 1. most of it is delegated. Those cases not delegated go to the committee, so clerk and 3 (I think) and there is an appeal from that so clerk, three and legal reps. Last time I did an appeal we worked out that after taking into account lunch, comfort breaks, sickness, and holidays that meant dealing with an application every 7.5 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Halsall Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 John, I think you are being rather utopian to suggest "the system needs getting rid of completely", I for one would prefer to see the opposite, and have the work permit system strengthened to protect the employment rights and opportunities of the manx. Let me suggest that if our work permit system had been operating stringently and effectively then Bus Vannin wouldn't be fronted by such blatant cronyism from across the Irish Sea. I can think of a few CE's and Director of.........s, that have arrived on our green hills by the sea and fxxxxd up, with us all thinking "surely to goodness a local could have done a better job"? We have excellent resources of manx talent on this island in many areas, yet we seem to have this ingrained belief that if an individual has worked for a tin pot local authority in the UK, then he is more than qualified to work for our tin pot government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Work permits do not protect Manx workers, never have. The system needs getting rid of completely. What protects Manx workers is a successful diversified economy where there is plenty of opportunity I agree. More action on getting the investment to create jobs is much better than blaming immigrants for the lack of jobs. The work permit system should be finished. The entitlement to public funds aspect of it should stay. Freedom to flourish..... no matter where you are from :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm surprised, and a little bit shocked, that John has such a one-sided view of the work permit system. I would have thought that the chairman of the work permit committee might have a more balanced view. I've posted on this subject before and can give plenty of first hand examples of discrimination against local candidates. I've sat three feet across a desk from a chief executive of one of our major public sectors, as he smiled at me and told me that 'we don't employ local people'. That's a fact. There are two sides to the work permit debate, and I accept all the arguments, but I've lost count of the number of times that a 'shake-up of the work permit rules' has been announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craggy_steve Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I've sat three feet across a desk from a chief executive of one of our major public sectors, as he smiled at me and told me that 'we don't employ local people'. That's a fact. Funny that, I've been told that in person by an IoM public sector CEO as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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