guzzi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 As far as I can remember, Bush & Blair's 'War on Terror', mistaken though it was, was a response to the terrorist attacks of 9th September 2001. It didn't take much prescience to understand how Bush would react to the bloodiest attack on the US mainland in centuries. The perpetrators fully understood this, and I believe the 'end of civilisation' was exactly what they desired. Bush and Blair chose to respond exactly as Al Qaida intended them to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 They are tryng to get us to hate muslims. They want non-muslims to blame muslims & incite a holy war. About time the whole lot of it was banned. The whole lot of what banned? There's no rule following in this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 If we have to give up some of our liberties such as strict border controls then thats ok, I would rather be closely monitored by a Government than shot with a Kalashnikov ! I think that's the planned next step.I don't think you want to be handing over any liberty, for any price.As terrible as this is, there is a much bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'm worried that any Muslim at any time might turn on me. You don't even know what they all look like either, we live in very frightening times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The situation is truly depressing, and I honestly cannot see a solution, easy or otherwise. It would, though, be unacceptable for any decent government not try to contain the threat posed by fundamentalist Islam, be it ISIL or whatever manifestation pops up. It is obvious that intelligence is fundamental to effective anti-terrorist action. To me, Gerry, the bigger picture is that the likes of ISIL are a much greater threat to the liberty you wish to defend than are our imperfect, but nevertheless democratically elected governments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 If we have to give up some of our liberties such as strict border controls then thats ok, I would rather be closely monitored by a Government than shot with a Kalashnikov ! I think that's the planned next step. I don't think you want to be handing over any liberty, for any price. As terrible as this is, there is a much bigger picture. I would much rather carry a full biometric id card at all times than be dead thanks !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin Indeed. Highly relevant and inspiring for the revolutionaries of the American War of Independence. In the context of the current tragic situation, it is a useless generality unless one gives due consideration to what the word 'essential' might mean for us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrydandridge Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.' Benjamin Franklin Basically yes. I would ask the question who has the most to gain from these attacks, real Muslims or the people that want to impose ID cards / micro chipping of the population, data interception laws, and a more militarised police with tight border controls. I would not be directing my anger toward the Muslim, these people are not Muslims in any shape or form.. The coverage recently of the migrant exodus into Europe will be to blame in many people minds, remember the memes floated around then of "the baddies sneaking in with them". Don't be frightened of Muslims "Paranoid" its not them you need to be watching right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ok right you are sultan up to 150 people are dead and all you can do is blame Blair and bush. terrorist attacks were happening long before the war on terror began. how about blaming the scum responsible for this I don't think Cameron helped matters with his 'grandstanding' speech over the fate of Jihadi John. Did Cameron really need to give that speech? Did he think that 'killing' JJ would discourage others from being radicalised? Did he not consider it would motivate a tiny % (and that's all it takes) to go on to cause devastation in Paris? An enemy that is prepared to die for their cause isn't quite so easy to defeat as the politicians would have us believe. More of this type of warfare to come, nearer to home soil and sooner rather than later is my take on it. TBT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 TBT, I wouldn't link the killing of Mohammid Emwazi to the Paris attacks. It's already been pointed out that the attacks were complex, and must have required considerable planning. It is also now being reported that the concert hall attackers launched into a diatribe about French involvement in Syria after proclaiming the Takbir and before opening fire. The killing of Emwazi might motivate some who are already on the road to radicalisation, but it might well deter the more naive by upping the ante beyond the level they are prepared to risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 As far as I can remember, Bush & Blair's 'War on Terror', mistaken though it was, was a response to the terrorist attacks of 9th September 2001. It didn't take much prescience to understand how Bush would react to the bloodiest attack on the US mainland in centuries. The perpetrators fully understood this, and I believe the 'end of civilisation' was exactly what they desired. Bush and Blair chose to respond exactly as Al Qaida intended them to respond. They destroyed Iraq guzzi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 As far as I can remember, Bush & Blair's 'War on Terror', mistaken though it was, was a response to the terrorist attacks of 9th September 2001. It didn't take much prescience to understand how Bush would react to the bloodiest attack on the US mainland in centuries. The perpetrators fully understood this, and I believe the 'end of civilisation' was exactly what they desired. Bush and Blair chose to respond exactly as Al Qaida intended them to respond. They destroyed Iraq guzzi? Well, they destabilised Iraq by invading it and deposing the regime, using the pretext of cooked-up intelligence. That is what I mean by 'mistaken'. Crass though that was, it was precipitated by the 9/11 attacks, even though they claimed it was to do with WMDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 This has been planned for weeks. If Cameron had made a major speech on the EU yesterday would people be trying to connect that with this outrage too? All the diverse communities within Europe must unite in condemning terrorism. It is only when violent sons and daughters face total isolation and rejection from the communities they come from but do not represent that this will end. If communities turn a blind eye and blame others for the evil growing around them then it will continue. This is where the culture of victim and blame so common amongst left wingers is so pernicious. It is not excusable to plot mass murder, ever. Such people have to be rejected, reported and loudly ostracised. There is no excuse for such behaviour. That conversation needs to be heard in all communities and people who try to justify or excuse terrorism, blaming others for the immorality and inhumanity terrorists show, should be totally rejected and given no place in any of our communities. Bush and Blair are not to blame or a justification for these acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I agree with all of the above Chinahand, apart from the last sentence. Their hands and motives being far from clean. The fact that these scattered attacks went unnoticed by security spooks is very worrying. Why wasn't there a hint of communication traffic between these murderers? Apart from the dreadful loss of life and injury spread across various locations, they appear to have had two suicide bombers plus bombs planted in a venue where the President of France was present. Incredible. What will become of Angela Merklel's now resented open door migrant/refugee policy is anyone's guess. The gradual reinstating of border controls throughout Europe is inevitable, surely? Germany will be very worried and angry too as there were a lot of Germans in the Stade last night. The backlash of these attacks, and those that are bound to follow, will be immense. Terrifying in fact. Scary times. Sometimes being on a small unimportant island is a very good place to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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