People In ICT And e-business Won’t Need Work Permits

[hillshepherd]

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

because most of them are too fucking thick.

[2112]

 

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

because most of them are too fucking thick.

Correct! However Government have allowed kids to fail GCSEs etc or leave school without taking exams at 16. Benefits have been given willy nilly as of right. In the UK you leave school at 18, or younger if you have apprenticeship or training etc. It is unacceptable that we can let our young people into the workplace with no qualifications and it's even more unforgiving, that we are telling potential employers we have an educated and skilled workforce. Correct in some cases, but we have a lot of foreign skilled and intelligent labour.

[dilligaf]

 

 

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

because most of them are too fucking thick.

Correct! However Government have allowed kids to fail GCSEs etc or leave school without taking exams at 16. Benefits have been given willy nilly as of right. In the UK you leave school at 18, or younger if you have apprenticeship or training etc. It is unacceptable that we can let our young people into the workplace with no qualifications and it's even more unforgiving, that we are telling potential employers we have an educated and skilled workforce. Correct in some cases, but we have a lot of foreign skilled and intelligent labour.

 

 

Are both highlighted bits correct?. I did not think that was the case.

[notwell]

 

 

 

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

because most of them are too fucking thick.

Correct! However Government have allowed kids to fail GCSEs etc or leave school without taking exams at 16. Benefits have been given willy nilly as of right. In the UK you leave school at 18, or younger if you have apprenticeship or training etc. It is unacceptable that we can let our young people into the workplace with no qualifications and it's even more unforgiving, that we are telling potential employers we have an educated and skilled workforce. Correct in some cases, but we have a lot of foreign skilled and intelligent labour.

 

 

Are both highlighted bits correct?. I did not think that was the case.

 

it isn't. It's utter bollocks.

[dilligaf]

 

 

 

 

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

because most of them are too fucking thick.

Correct! However Government have allowed kids to fail GCSEs etc or leave school without taking exams at 16. Benefits have been given willy nilly as of right. In the UK you leave school at 18, or younger if you have apprenticeship or training etc. It is unacceptable that we can let our young people into the workplace with no qualifications and it's even more unforgiving, that we are telling potential employers we have an educated and skilled workforce. Correct in some cases, but we have a lot of foreign skilled and intelligent labour.

 

 

Are both highlighted bits correct?. I did not think that was the case.

 

it isn't. It's utter bollocks.

 

I thought so. I'm sure GCSEs are not an option here or there.

[forestboy]

 

 

 

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

 

because most of them are too fucking thick.

Correct! However Government have allowed kids to fail GCSEs etc or leave school without taking exams at 16. Benefits have been given willy nilly as of right. In the UK you leave school at 18, or younger if you have apprenticeship or training etc. It is unacceptable that we can let our young people into the workplace with no qualifications and it's even more unforgiving, that we are telling potential employers we have an educated and skilled workforce. Correct in some cases, but we have a lot of foreign skilled and intelligent labour.

Are both highlighted bits correct?. I did not think that was the case.

The second bit in red IS correct.

[rmanx]

then why is the proposal for people earning over £25k?

 

 

Because they don't want anyone taking entry positions, but the proposal is geared towards the industries importing higher end employees (with no real attachment to the island, so they can detach from it again that much easier at short notice)rather than employ local.

[notwell]

 

 

The unemployment figures are in the hundreds. The reality is that if you drill down into those figures you have very few NEET's. It is more likely you have a few lazy twats that can't be fluffed to work and think they are owed something.

 

 

 

There is very little excuse not to working as a young person here.

 

Why do you constantly spout unresearched bullshit?

 

Just shut the fuck up.

That would be hard for him. He is probably a high ranking civil servant, conditioned to lovingly obey their master/mistress. Sadly in this case regarding NEETS, myself, working in the real world have direct experience and knowledge, and see this with my own eyes. I'm afraid Government have merely buck passed, but now it's too late.

 

I've no idea why you think I work for government. I don't and never have (unless you want to count Forces time). My skills are much better suited to private sector and developing business there.

 

The statistics are freely available on the numbers of people leaving education with no qualifications. Eight students left school last year with no qualifications. There were seven in 2014 and 2013, five in 2012 and 11 in 2011. I don't know what that figure is as a percentage but I assume it's 1 - 2%.

 

It's hardly an epidemic. The fact is that no matter where you are some people will leave education and struggle to get work. It might be because they are not motivated too (and their parents make it easy for them), it could be they are shit at interviews. And it could be they have unrealistic expecations of what they should be earning or are trying to obtain jobs that they are simply not suited to. It is far far worse in the UK and just because they have what appears to be a sizeable problem it doesn't mean it is the same here. I'd rather be a school leaver here than Preston.

 

Whilst I agree that there are plenty of challenges in the economy and the future there is still jobs out there for people. And there are initiatives going on in schools (at all levels) to provide children with life skills relevant to the outside world and work.

 

 

[Gee Cee]

No doubt there will be the usual squeals about all this, and about people from across pinching jobs that the locals should get. Sadly this overlooks two rather important points ...

 

1) some of the locals are bone idle and don't want to work

 

2) some of the locals are just not bright enough to be trained to do these jobs

 

I would like to see jobs saved for locals. But at the end of the day, if the locals either will not do the jobs, or are not capable of doing the jobs. then I am happy to see them go to outsiders. It is better that the work is done on the Island, than off it.

[buzz]

Yes. But that's the idea of work permits. If no one local qualified to do the job THEN get someone in from elsewhere, not before.

[Paul_Peel]

 

If we haven't got the people with the right skills, then the company will be able to apply for a work permit, what's the problem? Why bring in a system that allows companies to overlook suitably experienced or qualified workers from the IOM workers pool and bring in new people? Just for one sector?

 

 

The reality is the skills required are not available on the island but employers have a significant overhead in going through the work permit process, its not as simple as applying for one, you need to prove there are no suitable candidates on the island. Fair enough you might think but the rules of the Job Seekers Allowance program mean that everyone claiming JSA must apply for 2 jobs every week. so, the reality is that for any role an employer gets lots of applications from those on JSA who are totally unsuitable but are Manx workers so, before applying to get a work permit they need to rule out each and every applicant with documented evidence as to why. Even then, in some cases, they may be called to appear before the work permit committee in person to argue their case.

 

All this takes time and commitment from the employer and delays the process to the point that suitable candidates from off island often choose to take up another offer elsewhere. Some employers will simply save themselves the effort and 'off shore' the work which certainly does not help the IOM economy.

[Roger Mexico]

And as for recruitment, i know plenty of people who have been employed in eGaming. It isn't a last resort at all. The reality is that a lot of the jobs do require a certain skill set and experience that can, in some instances, be very difficult to find so of course those sort of candidates will probably have to come from off the island. So what?

 

But work permits have always been available for those sorts of specialised jobs. All it meant was that you had to advertise locally as well to be sure - and in the unlikely event of a Manx worker fulfilling the requirements, you'd be delighted that your life had been made easier. This proposal would mean an employer could recruit throughout the EU to get the cheapest available, depressing local wage levels. At 25K we're hardly talking about highly skilled, specialised IT staff. And depending on how the definitions are set (and policed) it may just mean that practically any office work will be now exempt.

 

As with so many things, you get the impression that Bell and co have not actually looked at the market and what it requires, but had their ear bent by some wealthy individual who thinks themself too important to go through the (not very onerous) proper procedures. And as usual they're running round to satisfy this passing whim without stopping to find out what is best for the Island.

[Roger Mexico]

The reality is the skills required are not available on the island but employers have a significant overhead in going through the work permit process, its not as simple as applying for one, you need to prove there are no suitable candidates on the island. Fair enough you might think but the rules of the Job Seekers Allowance program mean that everyone claiming JSA must apply for 2 jobs every week. so, the reality is that for any role an employer gets lots of applications from those on JSA who are totally unsuitable but are Manx workers so, before applying to get a work permit they need to rule out each and every applicant with documented evidence as to why. Even then, in some cases, they may be called to appear before the work permit committee in person to argue their case.

 

But that shouldn't really apply to specialised jobs such as we are supposed to be talking about here. If those on JSA are being made to to apply for unsuitable jobs, then that needs to be looked at, but that's a fault of the JSA system not the work permits - and, exemptions or not, employers are still going to get .deluged with wildly unsuitable applications. Reforms are being applied to the wrong place. Though I would image with the sort of specialised work these exemptions are supposed to be for, most duff applicants should be dismissed pretty easily.

[oldmanxfella]

 

 

Why don't we retrain all the people being removed from Income Support and Incapacity Benefit to Jobseekers in ICT?

Or as surgeons?

The trouble is Government is spouting that much rubbish who or what to believe. On top of the IS/Incapacity fiasco, the Island has a NEET problem which it won't address. These young people are ending up living in bed sits on IS or JSA, don't stand much of a chance of getting a job - in fact an incubation period before they graduate to drug taking followed by criminal activities. What a waste!

Official stats released the other week said that 25% of the Manx working population has no qualifications whatsoever. The whole highly skilled argument is pure bullshit if that is official data. How can 25% of everyone who works here not even have a CSE in woodwork? It's a pretty poor indictment of either our education system or our immigration policy.

[Mr Shoe]

Supply and demand will dictate that degree level IT and Maths positions salaries will head towards that nominal £25k position.

 

Why pay £45k for a local SQL Expert when you can now bring in a £25k one from wherever? And very, very rapidly.

 

So, per geek, the tax take will halve. However, eGaming isn't suddenly gonna double in size.

 

Net result.....loss of government revenue. And an exodus of local talent (I sure as hell ain't working for £25k). It'll take a few years, true enough, but that's what will happen.

 

I would love to see the model (i.e. lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet) where this was planned: "and you can see by the smiley face in cell C3, that everything is fine. does anyone know how to save this to a floppy?"