Manx Grand Prix

[Max Power]

 

 

Max Power, how is your 12500 figure of 2012 evidenced or have you just made that up?

Official government statistics at the time.

 

Not sure if there were any official stats for 2012. I think you will find, if you ask the carriers, that there was no meaningful increase in the number of visitors between 2009 and 2012. Maybe you are believing what you want to believe as an MGP supporter.

 

There have always been official stats, 2009 was quoted as the MGP's average arrivals at c.9000 but this was a blip due to the global financial crisis. This figure was used whilst quoting unjustifiable promotional costs by government in 2011, a deliberate ploy, as a sign that the MGP wasn't worth preserving. In fact by then the attendance figure had climbed to 10,500.

It was during this time that I found out how government is a law unto itself, cherry picking statistics to justify its own agenda.

 

I could say exactly the same about government believing what they want to believe, manipulating statistics to win their argument.

[Max Power]

 

 

Personally I feel we missed the boat years ago. We could have had a purpose built motorsport facility developed and hosting world championship racing for cars and bikes all season long. We had the infrastructure to do it and now we'd have to start from scratch.

A proper TT museum (bikes and cars) is long overdue, the way things are going, that's all we'd have left to remember our motorsport heritage.

I thought there was a motor museum up at Jurby, with cars and bikes. It even has a cafe.

 

 

There is ,and I'm not knocking it and the cafe is a welcome addition to the attraction.

 

One could argue it's a bit out of the way and it's true there are other "museums" , Murrays ( near the "fairy bridge" and Tony East's collection at Kirk Michael , both well worth a visit but I know of folk who have TT winning race bikes and other significant machinery that deserves to be displayed (imo).

 

I would not advocate that the best people to run the enterprise should be the Government , enthusiasts seem to have more idea as evidenced by those who run the Groudle or Wildlife Railway or the Lakeland motor museum (across).

 

just saying.

 

It's not a TT themed museum, I enjoy visiting it but it's a random collection of cars and bikes.

[joebean]

 

 

 

Max Power, how is your 12500 figure of 2012 evidenced or have you just made that up?

Official government statistics at the time.

 

Not sure if there were any official stats for 2012. I think you will find, if you ask the carriers, that there was no meaningful increase in the number of visitors between 2009 and 2012. Maybe you are believing what you want to believe as an MGP supporter.

 

There have always been official stats, 2009 was quoted as the MGP's average arrivals at c.9000 but this was a blip due to the global financial crisis. This figure was used whilst quoting unjustifiable promotional costs by government in 2011, a deliberate ploy, as a sign that the MGP wasn't worth preserving. In fact by then the attendance figure had climbed to 10,500.

It was during this time that I found out how government is a law unto itself, cherry picking statistics to justify its own agenda.

 

I could say exactly the same about government believing what they want to believe, manipulating statistics to win their argument.

 

Outside of the surveys carried out by Economic Affairs the only statistics worth a salt are the actual numbers brought over by the Steam Packet Company. If you want to get a true picture you need to get the figures for the relevant years. They will prove that there was no increase in visitors between 2009 and 2012. The numbers you are quoting are just wishful thinking by Government and MMCC, but don't let that spoil your argument. I am beginning to like the way you talk nonsense with authority. A career in politics beckons, perhaps.

[trmpton]

The Isle of Man comes with a huge amount of valuable unique kudos regarding motorsport. Others have cashed in on it (as above, Audi TT too) but the Island could surely be making more of it.

 

Not necessarily manufacturing machinery, but hey, why not?

 

The greatest/largest museum of motorcycling in the world should be here (Summerland site?). That accolade goes to Birmingham Alabama, or Birmingham/Solihull UK.

Wtf has the Audi TT got to do with anything?

[gettafa]

Wtf has the Audi TT got to do with anything?

Oh, sorry, didn't you know. There's a world famous motorcycle race on the Isle of Man called the TT...

 

 

 

 

.

[2112]

 

 

 

Personally I feel we missed the boat years ago. We could have had a purpose built motorsport facility developed and hosting world championship racing for cars and bikes all season long. We had the infrastructure to do it and now we'd have to start from scratch.

A proper TT museum (bikes and cars) is long overdue, the way things are going, that's all we'd have left to remember our motorsport heritage.

I thought there was a motor museum up at Jurby, with cars and bikes. It even has a cafe.

There is ,and I'm not knocking it and the cafe is a welcome addition to the attraction.

 

One could argue it's a bit out of the way and it's true there are other "museums" , Murrays ( near the "fairy bridge" and Tony East's collection at Kirk Michael , both well worth a visit but I know of folk who have TT winning race bikes and other significant machinery that deserves to be displayed (imo).

 

I would not advocate that the best people to run the enterprise should be the Government , enthusiasts seem to have more idea as evidenced by those who run the Groudle or Wildlife Railway or the Lakeland motor museum (across).

 

just saying.

It's not a TT themed museum, I enjoy visiting it but it's a random collection of cars and bikes.

I can't see another museum opening up,not least for the time being. The one in Jurby was set up to house a private collection with government subsidising this venture through land and building etc. They will push people to use this museum to put their motorcycles on display. A suggestion for government possibly is to give greater tax breaks to those collectors of bikes who may loan government the use of the motorcycle for a period of time - say TT and FOM fortnight. In conjunction with MNH and the Manx Museum where they could be displayed. The owner being rewarded with either greater tax benefits or rental payment for their use, including collection and return.

[paswt]

It could be argued that there are two types of collectors of motor vehicles , those who think the vehicles should be preserved and now sadly those who see them as an "investment".

 

I do not know what incentive the Jurby museum offer to those who loan their machinery but as long as the machinery is insured and the museum is 'secure' (bits of bike do get stolen) then the offer of payment/tax benefits would not interest me. just saying

 

Max Power,

 

there is a (small) TT themed section within the Lakeland motor museum ,outlining it's history and with a few race winning bikes on display but I agree it would be nice to have a TT/MGP Themed museum on island.

[woody2]

 

Wtf has the Audi TT got to do with anything?

Oh, sorry, didn't you know. There's a world famous motorcycle race on the Isle of Man called the TT...

 

 

 

 

.

 

and?

[HeliX]

 

 

Wtf has the Audi TT got to do with anything?

Oh, sorry, didn't you know. There's a world famous motorcycle race on the Isle of Man called the TT...

 

 

 

 

.

 

and?

 

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/25/audi-tt-s-to-be-official-car-of-the-tourist-trophy-races/

[Max Power]

 

 

 

 

Max Power, how is your 12500 figure of 2012 evidenced or have you just made that up?

Official government statistics at the time.

 

Not sure if there were any official stats for 2012. I think you will find, if you ask the carriers, that there was no meaningful increase in the number of visitors between 2009 and 2012. Maybe you are believing what you want to believe as an MGP supporter.

 

There have always been official stats, 2009 was quoted as the MGP's average arrivals at c.9000 but this was a blip due to the global financial crisis. This figure was used whilst quoting unjustifiable promotional costs by government in 2011, a deliberate ploy, as a sign that the MGP wasn't worth preserving. In fact by then the attendance figure had climbed to 10,500.

It was during this time that I found out how government is a law unto itself, cherry picking statistics to justify its own agenda.

 

I could say exactly the same about government believing what they want to believe, manipulating statistics to win their argument.

 

Outside of the surveys carried out by Economic Affairs the only statistics worth a salt are the actual numbers brought over by the Steam Packet Company. If you want to get a true picture you need to get the figures for the relevant years. They will prove that there was no increase in visitors between 2009 and 2012. The numbers you are quoting are just wishful thinking by Government and MMCC, but don't let that spoil your argument. I am beginning to like the way you talk nonsense with authority. A career in politics beckons, perhaps.

 

They were figures which were being openly quoted in the press, this has been done for as long as I can remember following the TT or MGP so there would be no reason to doubt them?

If you do know of alternative statistics I'd be interested to see them?

[quilp]

Are normal travellers and those escaping the mayhem included in the figures for both events?

[woody2]

 

 

 

Wtf has the Audi TT got to do with anything?

Oh, sorry, didn't you know. There's a world famous motorcycle race on the Isle of Man called the TT...

 

 

 

 

.

 

and?

 

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/25/audi-tt-s-to-be-official-car-of-the-tourist-trophy-races/

 

you learn something ever day, shame the CS never registered the copyright, they would be quids in

[joebean]

Max Power,

 

In your quest for truth you should contact the ferry company and ask them to tell you the number of motorcycles carried for the MGP period between 2009 and 2012. This would, I would think, give the most accurate indication of growth in the event as it will largely exclude non-event visitors. I am not sure if the information would be made available but I am sure the numbers may be illuminating. I stand to be corrected of course. I recall my fascination at the time with the way MGP supporters rubbished what Government were saying about the need for change in the event but were very ready to accept Government estimates or spin when it suited. Still doing it.

[notwell]

I would be very surprised if there has not been an uptick in visitor numbers since the Classic stuff was introduced.

 

IMO it's a good move. The MGP must have been very expensive to run. It needs more visitors and there is a huge market for the Classic enthusiast.

[Max Power]

Max Power,

 

In your quest for truth you should contact the ferry company and ask them to tell you the number of motorcycles carried for the MGP period between 2009 and 2012. This would, I would think, give the most accurate indication of growth in the event as it will largely exclude non-event visitors. I am not sure if the information would be made available but I am sure the numbers may be illuminating. I stand to be corrected of course. I recall my fascination at the time with the way MGP supporters rubbished what Government were saying about the need for change in the event but were very ready to accept Government estimates or spin when it suited. Still doing it.

I think you have things a little confused, the DED in 2012 excluded the MMCC from discussions about the future of their event, the MGP. It was then announced by the DED, that the MGP would be discontinued to be replaced by an event called the Classic TT to be run by themselves. It seems that this was the culmination of a plan which had been conceived prior to 2006, again without consultation with the club who had organised the event since 1923.

The MMCC recognised a decline in entries for the Classic races at the MGP which was really due to the escalating costs of running the machines around the circuit. The DED offered free entries and to pay the costs of recognised owners providing their machines. They also agreed to pay TT riders to ride in the races. The MMCC, whose event it was, could not afford to do this, but with DED assistance could have agreed a way forward.

The DED wanted the MGP and MMCC out of the way and used bullying and spin to try and achieve this. When the supporters and many riders, rose up in support of the event and club, the DED were forced to compromise. This has been the source of a strained relationship ever since, although many of the senior officials are MMCC members.

The SPCo supplied the statistics which I have quoted at the time. I had them in a file which I was using at the time.

 

This is not a situation which the MMCC have created, they would welcome closer co-operation and end to the petty feuds which arise from time to time. Some supporters of the MGP are, understandably very distrustful of the IOM Government over the way that the DED were allowed to run rampant over a club which was formed and exists solely to organise the MGP.