Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, hboy said: It's nice to see someone inside government being honest for once. I'd love to hear more of what he's got to say. No doubt it's partly driven by JD Sports / Sports Direct indirectly forcing his dad to shut up shop after 40 years and move to Ramsey on the business side. Can't say I feel any different when local traders are being forced out by big corporates who pay no taxes when they've been supporting the economy by paying taxes and employing people for 40 or 50 years. The Island, and it's civil servants tying us all up in red tape and slowly bankrupting us to keep those at the top earning more than most people who are private sector business owners and taxpayers, is slowly killing itself and we need to put on the brakes. In fact we've needed to stop this mad imbalance for over 10 years now. I know of several business people who have said exactly the same in the last 2-3 years. Good on Juan. But it isn't the Isle of Man Government who are imposing these "regulations". These are being forced on us by the UK. Make no mistake: we have no choice but to acquiesce or we might as well close shop entirely. It's not just the IOM. There is red tape and regulation in the UK, and a lot of it is ultimately coming from the EU. I see Brexit as offering the Isle of Man a new lease of life, if only we have leadership with the spine and brain power to adapt and take advantage of it. These business people may have a point, but they are wrong to characterise it as a uniquely IOM problem, or one brought about by the government here. I agree about these big retail businesses being allowed in with 0% tax. I don't think they should be allowed that. The 0% corporation tax should only apply to services businesses, not to UK retail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, maynragh said: Also, an interesting tack for someone who is due to face re-election early next year. Presumably he's been told he's not getting back in. He might get back in, now he's pushed this phony call to arms against government corruption. Sorry but the Machiavelli in me has alarm bells going off that this guy is talking crap to try and get re-elected or knowing full well his position as an MLC is not going to continue. I would have taken him seriously if he'd said it from the very beginning, instead of remaining silent until the very end, having parasited off the public purse for long enough. I don't see him resigning and giving up his salary, pension, or expenses. I find the whole thing insincere and calculated. Never trust career politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 38 minutes ago, Aristotle said: Instead of whinging and badmouthing the island, why hasn't he used his position to try to improve things? he's improved quite a few things for himself thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, maynragh said: One of the longest serving and most experienced members of the current house, a man who fully understands the intricacies of how the machine really works decides the best way to drive change is to rant about it on FB. Whether you agree or not, it would seem we really are that screwed. Well he's probably painfully aware of who the real pricks are who run this place. I would suggest like many he's probably now totally given up even believing that change is even possible of happening so a nice public rant is in order. This Island is fucked to almost everyone but the piggies at the helm high up within the Civil Service who are now just hell bent on extracting as much can as they can for themselves before the last penny is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, Aristotle said: But it isn't the Isle of Man Government who are imposing these "regulations". These are being forced on us by the UK. Make no mistake: we have no choice but to acquiesce or we might as well close shop entirely. It's not just the IOM. There is red tape and regulation in the UK, and a lot of it is ultimately coming from the EU. I see Brexit as offering the Isle of Man a new lease of life, if only we have leadership with the spine and brain power to adapt and take advantage of it. Another Brexit delusionist. Dream on. It's fucked, we fucked it all by ourselves. Without the VAT money our whole state business model has been dead in the water. Even before that it was only sustanabke as we were ripping the UK off to the tune of tens of millions a year to pay the state wage bill. Neither the UK or the EU built up nearly £4bn of totally empty pension promises that will need to be covered by manx taxpayers for the next 40 years. That's where future investment will be going - not in growth or diversifying our economy or providing public services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Misread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestedman Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Juan Turner.........12 years an MLC, taken at least £500k of our money into his own household in wages and aged 60 presumably will collect £20k a year in pension. And in that time he has done what exactly ? And then five months before he gets dumped (as he undoubtedly will) he gives us all a mouthful about how crap the IOM is and how wonderful living in the UK would be. I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for leeches like Turner. He should be charged with fraud as far as I am concerned.....especially as a closer inspection of his facebook page indicates he does absolutely eff all except go on holiday. Tosser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 minute ago, hboy said: Another Brexit delusionist. Dream on. It's fucked, we fucked it all by ourselves. Without the VAT money our whole state business model has been dead in the water. Even before that it was only sustanabke as we were ripping the UK off to the tune of tens of millions a year to pay the state wage bill. You're just regurgitating remoaner cynicism here. The UK is going to do tremendously outside of the EU and we're going to be right there with them, if we have leaders up to the task. The VAT money was propping up unsustainable public sector growth, and daft salaries and pensions, but the VAT money was not the business model of the Isle of Man as a whole. We still have a good business model as far as being a financial centre is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 31 minutes ago, maynragh said: Also, an interesting tack for someone who is due to face re-election early next year. Presumably he's been told he's not getting back in. That's been pretty obvious for a while, so if he's only just realised that, he's even stupider than we think he is. I get the impression that he's only done the bare minimum as an MLC - for a while he didn't even take on any Departmental roles. It's not like he's been a Peter Karran, endlessly criticising and analysing what was going wrong. He's only complaining about the gravy train now he's about to be thrown off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, Aristotle said: You're just regurgitating remoaner cynicism here. The UK is going to do tremendously outside of the EU and we're going to be right there with them, if we have leaders up to the task. The VAT money was propping up unsustainable public sector growth, and daft salaries and pensions, but the VAT money was not the business model of the Isle of Man as a whole. We still have a good business model as far as being a financial centre is concerned. No I'm not. Neither the UK or the EU has anything to do with our plight. We did it ourselves. In fact it's EU and UK VAT money that started underwriting it all in the first place. It has nothing to do with Brexit. Come Brexit the UK will be the biggest low tax center in Europe - so our direct competitor. That will make things much worse for the IOM not better as it will be easier to do what people do here in London without all the red tape and hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Let's just hope Geoff Corkish is thrown off with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Just now, hboy said: No I'm not. Neither the UK or the EU has anything to do with our plight. We did it ourselves. In fact it's EU and UK VAT money that started underwriting it all in the first place. It has nothing to do with Brexit bollocks. But you're conflating government finances (which we all agree are shit) with the island's national economic model (which is still viable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, hboy said: Another Brexit delusionist. Dream on. It's fucked, we fucked it all by ourselves. Without the VAT money our whole state business model has been dead in the water. Even before that it was only sustanabke as we were ripping the UK off to the tune of tens of millions a year to pay the state wage bill. Obviously I liked this in support of all but the first sentence. Our expenses are based on that VAT money. How bloody stupid was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Aristotle said: But you're conflating government finances (which we all agree are shit) with the island's national economic model (which is still viable). But can the latter generate enough to support the former? It's not a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, Aristotle said: But you're conflating government finances (which we all agree are shit) with the island's national economic model (which is still viable). No I'm not. VAT arbitrage was the Islands only business model. It underwrote zero 10 and low personal taxes. We were never viable as a low tax center without the VAT underwring it. And we still aren't. As for Brexit - come Brexit the UK will be the biggest low tax corporate centre in Europe - so our direct competitor. That will make things much worse for the IOM not better as it will be easier to do what people do here in London without all the red tape and hassle. We were only ever a finance sector lite propped up by UK and EU VAT arbitrage. Quite why we allowed that to create a £400m annual wage bill, and £4bn in unfunded pension liabilities is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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