thesultanofsheight Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Non-Believer said: brigandry Great and most apt word of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piebaps Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Certainly reflects the £500k or so Turner has sucked from the public teat over the last ten years and the pension rights he's accrued. Its obviously not occurred to him that his wages etc are part of the largesse against which he rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: It's time the delusion ended. Because the funding definitely has. That's the key to everything, nobody seems able to accept this and government dreams of master plans to fund services. The one thing they don't seem willing to address is the PS pension deficit. That and the MUA debt have torpedoed the island below the water line, we either offload it to lighten the load and re-float, or abandon ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parchedpeas Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 So we rinsed the UK taxpayer with our enourmous VAT overpayments, which we then squandered (at the same time as we were boasting about what a successful economy we were) and now the plan is to subsume ourselves into the UK so that they can continue to fund our gravy train. Why on earth would the UK want us? We've made our bed, we should set the right conditions here so that we can lie in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 53 minutes ago, guzzi said: No, they don't have a plan. I'm tempted to ask how could they have a plan? The MHKs are a collection of independent representatives, each with his or her own manifesto. The CM does not put forward a plan, simply picks an administration based on ... what? Political expediency, I suspect, keeping his friends close and his enemies closer. They could at the very least produce a policy document that is a superset of their manifestos... Not completely accurate, the Programme for Government was published in Jan this year. https://www.gov.im/news/2017/jan/10/programme-for-government-published/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The first government waller to admit we're fucked. Before i even clinked the link i knew it would be trotsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Thanks, Bobbie, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 Stu covering it on TH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 20 minutes ago, parchedpeas said: Why on earth would the UK want us? We've made our bed, we should set the right conditions here so that we can lie in it. Exactly. And if it were everybody that would be fair enough. But it's not. Most of the perpetrators of that particular bed-making exercise have fluffed up their down pillows on far more comfortable beds and departed with their self-entitled swag. The beds that are left here are going to have at least ten occupants each, all top to toe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 What utterly ridiculous remarks from Juan Turner. He should immediately resign from his unelected position and explain why he hasn't done so earlier, if he really believes what he says. He should also elaborate on exactly what he means about him moving business to the UK. What regulations exactly have pushed him to do this? What business does he refer to? Why hasn't he spoken about this earlier? Also, he can go and get stuffed if he thanks I will give up Manx independence and sovereignty to become a county of a foreign power. He is no better than a Benedict Arnold with such comments. There is no economic argument for becoming part of the UK.To borrow from Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up essential Liberty (our independence), to purchase a little temporary Safety (some nonsensical notion of economic security), deserve neither Liberty (independence) nor Safety (economic security). I don't trust politicians. I think he has said too little, too much nonsense, and too late. He has spent so much of his life feeding off the government tit, and now he has the cheek to suddenly come up with this outburst, entirely oblivious to his own participation. If I was conspiracy minded, I might even think creating an economic imbalance was a deliberate pretext to push for making us part of the UK. Has anybody looked at the economic situation of places like Morecambe and Lancashire? They are not doing very well. If the island became part of the UK, and relinquished its unique selling points as a place to do business, we'd soon end up just like those north western low growth economic areas. We wouldn't be given any special place. England is a big country but the wealth is mainly focused around London and the surrounding areas. We don't even have a sufficient population to warrant us having our own MP. We'd be subsumed under constituencies in Liverpool or Lancashire. Above all, we'd lose our liberty and freedom, our national independence. I would advocate a revolutionary coup before I ever accepted foreign rule. of our island. You can come out with all the economic arguments you want (as ridiculous as they are) but our freedom and independence is more important than economic welfare. I also suspect, given his failure to speak up until now, that there's probably some ulterior agenda to this "rant". Is he being maneuvered out of the MLC and figured he'd come out with this nonsense before he was ejected from his position, so he can look like a martyr? Well, I remain suspicious. Any credible points he might have raised are null and void when you come to his idiotic conclusion that we should join a foreign country. What an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Instead of whinging and badmouthing the island, why hasn't he used his position to try to improve things? I haven't wasted any of my time looking into his contributions over the years. I'd love to see a list of things he has accomplished that would in any way indicate he is sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Aristotle said: What utterly ridiculous remarks from Juan Turner. He should immediately resign from his unelected position and explain why he hasn't done so earlier, if he really believes what he says. He should also elaborate on exactly what he means about him moving business to the UK. What regulations exactly have pushed him to do this? What business does he refer to? Why hasn't he spoken about this earlier? It's nice to see someone inside government being honest for once. I'd love to hear more of what he's got to say. No doubt it's partly driven by JD Sports / Sports Direct indirectly forcing his dad to shut up shop after 40 years and move to Ramsey on the business side. Can't say I feel any different when local traders are being forced out by big corporates who pay no taxes when they've been supporting the economy by paying taxes and employing people for 40 or 50 years. The Island, and it's civil servants tying us all up in red tape and slowly bankrupting us to keep those at the top earning more than most people who are private sector business owners and taxpayers, is slowly killing itself and we need to put on the brakes. In fact we've needed to stop this mad imbalance for over 10 years now. I know of several business people who have said exactly the same in the last 2-3 years. Good on Juan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 I find myself supporting people who are putting alternative views on what he said. That isn't surprising though seeing as he proposed totally opposing scenarios in the one paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 One of the longest serving and most experienced members of the current house, a man who fully understands the intricacies of how the machine really works decides the best way to drive change is to rant about it on FB. Whether you agree or not, it would seem we really are that screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Also, an interesting tack for someone who is due to face re-election early next year. Presumably he's been told he's not getting back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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