Aristotle Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Quote Few opinion polls that claim to detect a shift in public attitudes merit the ubiquitous label “landmark research”, but here’s one that does. The Legatum Institute, a thinktank, and Populus have found levels of support for nationalising large parts of the economy that would have been hard to believe a few years ago. The big four industries in the sights of Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell should all return to public ownership, according to a strong majority of respondents. Water topped the poll (83%), followed by electricity (77%), gas (77%) and the railways (76%). Dig deeper into the figures and you will see a remarkable convergence of opinion across age groups for most sectors. This is not a generational phenomenon. Some 78% of 55-64-year-olds, who are old enough to remember the days of British Rail (unloved at the time), support public ownership of train companies. So the overwhelming majority of people in the UK believe in nationalisation of gas. I agree with them and think we should do the same. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/01/jeremy-corbyn-nationalisation-plans-voters-tired-free-markets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 What you've got to worry about in a nationalisation is who is going to be in charge. There is a good chance they might not be up for the job. The principle argument against the nationalisation of the Steam Packet is that the government would without a doubt make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Aristotle said: So the overwhelming majority of people in the UK believe in nationalisation of gas. I agree with them and think we should do the same. Thoughts? OK. But you cannot just take it. You have to buy it. You have to adequately compensate. You have to raise the money. This would probably mean borrowing. This would mean the tax payer funding the interest and payback which would mean higher taxes and probably higher charges for gas. Wrong generation! Been there! Done that! Seen it!....The others have yet to learn what it's like.. The railways In the UK are already in public ownership. NetworkRail owns the tracks. The users are franchised. The Dutch firm Abellio has taken a great chunk of the network and is now taking great chunks in Wales and Scotland. Abellio runs the state owned railways in Holland and in its accounts state that the money it makes in its UK operations helps subsidise that Dutch state rail network. We also have the Human Rights Act with its First Protocol which grants human rights to companies and allows them the peaceful enjoyment of the property and possessions. It can be done but it must be proportionate and balanced between public and private interest and such as a country's needs...But it is a contentious point and not like the old days of pipe smoking Labourites, "flat 'ats" and Gannex macs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: What you've got to worry about in a nationalisation is who is going to be in charge. There is a good chance they might not be up for the job. The principle argument against the nationalisation of the Steam Packet is that the government would without a doubt make it worse. And the Steampacket own nothing to nationalise that is worth having.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 We should look at the real costs. Taxpayer has already bought and paid for a gas network...that Manx Gas charge for...again...Taxpayer paying for an illegal MEA loan. We should pay off the MEA debt instead of funding excessive public sector and civil service pensions...instead of charging the public twice. Govt could halve our energy costs...instead they suck additional taxpayer money into their pension fund. They have already increased VAT to an effective 22.5% by dumping the MEA standing charge back on us. The public need to see the simple breakdown of what they are being charged, and already what's been paid for. We are being blagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Who would you put in charge of it, given IoM Govt's track record in power utilities? As Albert says, the links to MUA debt which are always denied are what is at the root of what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 46 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: OK. But you cannot just take it. You have to buy it. You have to adequately compensate. You have to raise the money. This would probably mean borrowing. This would mean the tax payer funding the interest and payback which would mean higher taxes and probably higher charges for gas. you set up a new company in competition with manx gas which will drive their income down and they will be desperate to sell, tatty bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Dearden Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 58 minutes ago, Aristotle said: So the overwhelming majority of people in the UK believe in nationalisation of gas. I agree with them and think we should do the same. Thoughts? It does not seem wise. For it to be better run, you would have to believe that the govt. has better skills and expertise at running a gas co. It is no criticism of the CS to suggest that they may not have these skills lying around. Money would have to be paid. You might think Jeremy C and John Mc are a bit reckless to think of printing money to do this in the UK (buy utilities) but at least they do have this option, the IOM govt. does not. It would need to use it's own cash and I expect there are better uses for such a scarce resource. The govt. is often crticised for being involved in too much - do we really want to make the PS/CS larger? [I do actually think the govt. should consider spending some cash on local infrastructure but Manx Gas would not fit this criteria. The business already exists and buying it would be a transfer of cash from govt. to non-residents and no extra investment on the IOM.] Anyone who wishes to promote such an idea really needs to explain why it might be a good idea. It is a good question and deserves an airing - TYVM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Boyes Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 An easier way to tackle this issue is price control. Have a board of consumers, maybe one for each parish and impose top levels for prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 If we are going to borrow money to nationalise anything it has to be something profitable, we cannot afford to nationalise anything and just facilitate a transfer of cash to shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Aristotle said: So the overwhelming majority of people in the UK believe in nationalisation of gas. I agree with them and think we should do the same. Thoughts? So how much do you anticipate compensating the ultimate shareholders of Manx Gas for when you mis appropriate their assets and remove value that they have paid for from the ownership structure? I thought the normal calculation in a compulsory purchase is somewhere near open market valuation plus up to 20% so that's probably a few billion. Where would you get that from? You can't just go around stealing assets off shareholders whatever you feel like it. You'll get sued for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kardassian Vulture Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Manx Gas are using the standing charge to make up for the shortfall in gas sales that make them the profit they are allowed.Can charge whatever they like for the standing charge, and they are. But, they are pricing themselves to bankruptcy. Lots of people are turning gas to 0. It already costs 4-5 times the annual price of UK bills. Shortly they will not be a going concern, they will be gone. The MEA is a big consumer of gas, so price increases are filtered down in Electricity bills too. Except of course the MEA is spared the standing charge? We get shafted. I can't pay, and am in big debt to pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, Kardassian Vulture said: Manx Gas are using the standing charge to make up for the shortfall in gas sales that make them the profit they are allowed.Can charge whatever they like for the standing charge, and they are. But, they are pricing themselves to bankruptcy. Lots of people are turning gas to 0. It already costs 4-5 times the annual price of UK bills. Shortly they will not be a going concern, they will be gone. The MEA is a big consumer of gas, so price increases are filtered down in Electricity bills too. Except of course the MEA is spared the standing charge? We get shafted. I can't pay, and am in big debt to pay the bills. I recently quoted on here that our gas was three times as expensive as the UK, however a subsequent check of UK v iom tariffs does indeed show we pay up to 4x or more than those lucky buggers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Phillip Dearden said: Anyone who wishes to promote such an idea really needs to explain why it might be a good idea. It is a good question and deserves an airing - TYVM. I'd be more than happy to explain, but I'm running a bath at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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