Should we nationalise Manx Gas?

[Aristotle]

10 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

You disagree, what a surprise. You're wrong, simple as that. Water heated to the same temperature by two different means will cool at the same rate under the same circumstances.

I'm not convinced. If you boil a pan of hot water and stop it when it starts to boil, it stays warmer than the kettle water, even though both were heated up to boiling point. I would suggest that a prolonged heating will cause more friction at an atomic or sub-atomic level, which means the heat will remain for much longer. The heat in water which was just quickly heated may have less atomic or sub-atomic friction going on. I don't think it's as simply as two methods of heating water to the same temperature and then cooling down at the same rate. There's a lot more going on in terms of energy.

[Aristotle]

Paging Chinahand.......

[Tarne]

Easy test for you llap. Boil two kettles. Pour them on your face. Problem solved. 

[The Duck of Atholl]

5 hours ago, Aristotle said:

I'm not convinced. If you boil a pan of hot water and stop it when it starts to boil, it stays warmer than the kettle water, even though both were heated up to boiling point. I would suggest that a prolonged heating will cause more friction at an atomic or sub-atomic level, which means the heat will remain for much longer. The heat in water which was just quickly heated may have less atomic or sub-atomic friction going on. I don't think it's as simply as two methods of heating water to the same temperature and then cooling down at the same rate. There's a lot more going on in terms of energy.

This is priceless! Perhaps you should mug up on Specific Heat Capacity.

[Barrie Stevens]

10 hours ago, WTF said:

you set up a new company in competition with manx gas which will drive their income down and they will be desperate to sell,  tatty bye.

If you set up an alternative company...and i know nothing of the gas pipeline network and who uses it....then you have no need to nationalise that which you have driven out of business...Your solution is not nationalisation it is free market competition by way of a "state owned" company as it were...And then when the competition has gone you end up with a "state monopoly"...Bit cock-eyed that one!

[WTF]

we have a state monopoly on water and electric .  

[MediaStar]

8 hours ago, maynragh said:

The only logical thing to do would be a locally owned and controlled (government supported - not controlled) co-op. That would ensure all potential benefit remains within the local economy. Co-ops are consistently the most efficient and most stable form of business. Also the best solution for the rest of the utilities, and the ferry. However this would require common sense, so it will never happen. Also, IOMGov have already demonstrated that they can even balls up a perfectly viable co-op with their handy work at the meat plant - by trying to rip off the locally owned co-op over the asset costs - rent. As others have noted, we've already paid for the infrastructure (a lot of which is so drastically badly run it's failing way before it's design lifespan). 

 

I wonder how many of all these pro nationalization posters would be up in arms the second the newly nationalized company had to borrow £500m to invest into new infrastructure. More MUA debt anybody? We simply have an appalling record at state owned utility companies or any state owned companies for that matter. Even co-ops like the Meat Plant and the Creamery have been a complete joke in the past. Government should not be running anything as it has proved that it cant run anything efficiently. 

[Chinahand]

6 hours ago, Aristotle said:

Paging Chinahand.......

Too busy now maybe this evening, but issues like insulation etc are critical. 

[P.K.]

Latent heat.

[craggy_steve]

1 hour ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

This is priceless! Perhaps you should mug up on Specific Heat Capacity.

 

But an insulated mug to avoid it cooling too quickly.  

[Neil Down]

7 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Ah, but maybe it's like homeopathy, and the heated water retains a special memory of the sort of boiler it went through.

Or maybe he's just an idiot...

[mojomonkey]

I reckon homeopathic boilers are a massive untapped market. Fools and their money and all that.

[Albert Tatlock]

7 hours ago, Aristotle said:

I'm not convinced. If you boil a pan of hot water and stop it when it starts to boil, it stays warmer than the kettle water, even though both were heated up to boiling point. I would suggest that a prolonged heating will cause more friction at an atomic or sub-atomic level, which means the heat will remain for much longer. The heat in water which was just quickly heated may have less atomic or sub-atomic friction going on. I don't think it's as simply as two methods of heating water to the same temperature and then cooling down at the same rate. There's a lot more going on in terms of energy.

Eureka! You tit!

[mojomonkey]

18 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Eureka! You tit!

He's Aristotle not Archimedes.

[maynragh]

3 hours ago, MediaStar said:

I wonder how many of all these pro nationalization posters would be up in arms the second the newly nationalized company had to borrow £500m to invest into new infrastructure. More MUA debt anybody? We simply have an appalling record at state owned utility companies or any state owned companies for that matter. Even co-ops like the Meat Plant and the Creamery have been a complete joke in the past. Government should not be running anything as it has proved that it cant run anything efficiently. 

That was sort of the point I was making. Independant co-ops make perfect sense, especially for small communities in difficult locations. The reason the IOM Meats failed was because of governmental failure, not failure of the principle. Ideally government would hand over the infrastructure we’ve already paid for to locally controlled not for profit co-ops - but as noted this is simply too logical for most people. 

There is no problem with the principle of paying for infrastructure either, but as it stands at present a lot of the stuff we’ve incurred huge debts to pay for is going to need replacing before we’ve finished paying for it, simply through poor management. If the money that was spent on the power station, gas pipe, incinerator and iris had been under co-op control it’s highly likely the IOM would be entirely independent in energy by now - which clearly would be a massive boost to the economy. There is no practical reason why not, just political stupidity.