Laxey flooding

[Rushen Spy]

10 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

i think they blew all the cash on merry christmas from garff commisioners signs.

I hope they've fixed the broken tree light (front, right) on the "Merry Christmas" sign in Laxey Village Square.

[SJR]

Not read the whole thread as lunatics on the loose.I will put my thoughts very simply....Too many trees in Laxey especially on the Southern Bank.I would never live in the village as even a Garth Commissioner should realise that.Plenty of dead trees and wood and that tumbles into the river.Look at photos of Laxey 100 years ago with no trees.And once you start building up the area and concreting over much of the valley and above where has the water to go..

[Numbnuts]

42 minutes ago, ecobob said:

And part of the contract would be a thorough risk assessment and plans put in place should a yellow weather warning arise. 

Leaving a digger in the river downstream of the 3 metre hole in the flood defence and not plugging up the flood defence the night before a yellow weather warning would not constitute a thorough risk assessment innit humble opinion.  

This is not about pointing the finger of blame this is about drawing attention to a HUGE error of judgment on the part of the contractor and their employers, IOM government. 

As before, if high tide had been forecast at 7/8/9am on Monday morning then the whole of Lower Laxey would have been washed away and loss of life would almost certainly have occurred. This is not for sweeping under the carpet. Not this time. 

River management, tree management, flood defences all need attention. The banks on the opposite side of the river have now collapsed. 

The residents will give them a chance to do as they say they are going to do but they will have every resident breathing down their neck from now on and checking that they are following the recommendations from the 2019 river survey. 

So don’t preach to me about not pointing the finger of blame. Unless you live with your head in the sand you will know that the only way to get them to do what they should be doing is to shame them into it. I wish it weren’t the case but it is  

I disagree . Re contractor ..and no I don't know anything about them or people who work for them ...but it must have been in the contract to remove the wall as it's not a cheap option to carry out and then make good...that would have been in the contract as the need for a digger was a key necessity to carry out the works...

[ecobob]

Of course it was in the contract to remove the wall. How else could they have got the digger down there to do the work and help the little fishes get up the river to spawn (as they’ve been doing for hundreds of years without a ladder to help them) 

The issue is that they didn’t shore up the hole and they left the digger in the river the night before a yellow warning was issued. 

My point is that part of the contract is to carry out a risk assessment and act accordingly. Are you saying you think this was done?  

[Numbnuts]

7 minutes ago, ecobob said:

Of course it was in the contract to remove the wall. How else could they have got the digger down there to do the work and help the little fishes get up the river to spawn (as they’ve been doing for hundreds of years without a ladder to help them) 

The issue is that they didn’t shore up the hole and they left the digger in the river the night before a yellow warning was issued. 

My point is that part of the contract is to carry out a risk assessment and act accordingly. Are you saying you think this was done?  

I actually do...and they didn't see the possible issue ...which is zero excuse and in fact a lot worse ..and they could easily lifted the digger in at less cost than kicking the wall down and reinstating . It's a complete and utter cock up . By everyone involved really but the top of the tree is ultimatly responsible but they will deflect this for sure and actually have already started the process . 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Numbnuts

[yootalkin2me]

Not one person here knows what went on prior to the flood, you all opine about this and that but none of you actually know all the facts. It must be gratifying to you armchair experts to have a public forum otherwise no one would listen to you. Why doesn't someone actually  acquire all the facts, post them on here and then you can all be free to sp9ut your opin8ons because they'll be based on fact rather than hearsay and conjecture?

[Rushen Spy]

2 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Not one person here knows what went on prior to the flood

You mean before "God" got angry and decided to commit mass genocide?

[finlo]

12 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Not one person here knows what went on prior to the flood, you all opine about this and that but none of you actually know all the facts. It must be gratifying to you armchair experts to have a public forum otherwise no one would listen to you. Why doesn't someone actually  acquire all the facts, post them on here and then you can all be free to sp9ut your opin8ons because they'll be based on fact rather than hearsay and conjecture?

Calm down Ray!

[Numbnuts]

17 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Not one person here knows what went on prior to the flood, you all opine about this and that but none of you actually know all the facts. It must be gratifying to you armchair experts to have a public forum otherwise no one would listen to you. Why doesn't someone actually  acquire all the facts, post them on here and then you can all be free to sp9ut your opin8ons because they'll be based on fact rather than hearsay and conjecture?

Yes your right but it's clear from on site videos and clearly the police guy there that the lack of wall and build of timber. Etc contributed.But you know I don't think the story will ever allowed to be told fully and honestly . As per normal...we've already had the lessons will be learned angle from CM . Poor residents is all I'm going to say finally . 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Numbnuts

[yootalkin2me]

10 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Yes your right but it's clear from on site videos and clearly the police guy there that the lack of wall and build of timber. Etc contributed.But you know I don't think the story will ever allowed to be told fully and honestly . As per normal...we've already had the lessons will be learned angle from CM . Poor residents is all I'm going to say finally . 

 

Yes, we know what the causes were but none of us know who was actually at fault....yet.

I would say that there is more than likely a plethora of factors that created the flood in Laxey and that there are many responsible for what actually occurred but as stated previously no one knows the full story, not on this forum, and those that do outside of this forum will do all they can tonavoid being accountable.

Agreed, poor residents.

[dilligaf]

36 minutes ago, Rushen Spy said:

You mean before "God" got angry and decided to commit mass genocide?

Quite right. Just what have the god botherers got to say about this ? This god guy is said to govern it all.

[Shake me up Judy]

.....and if and when we know all the facts, who made the decisions, all the factors, we'd still be in the same place and we'd still more than likely be right. The standard Manx defence is always the same old 'You don't know the facts'. Politicians and civil servants have hidden behind that argument and ass-covering for generations and it doesn't wash anymore. 

[NoTail]

No, the usual one is commercial confidelity.

[Derek Flint]

10 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

I actually do...and they didn't see the possible issue ...which is zero excuse and in fact a lot worse ..and they could easily lifted the digger in at less cost than kicking the wall down and reinstating . It's a complete and utter cock up . By everyone involved really but the top of the tree is ultimatly responsible but they will deflect this for sure and actually have already started the process . 

Have you hired a crane recently? 

Not sure you’d get one down to Glen Road in any case.

[Derek Flint]

One of the ‘disadvantages’ of there being no fatalities, (and I recognize that is crass) is there is no investigation to the extent necessary to satisfy the coroner. The Mercer incident is another example. An inquest is a matter of public record, and as such, the public get to know what happened.

a very mature and grown up approach to this by IOMG would be to conduct a serious incident review. Hire a retired senior detective, and allow them to conduct an investigation in the style of an AAIB report on an aviation incident. They don’t apportion blame, but set out, in evidenced terms, what happened. 

At the end of those reports, a series of recommendations are scripted. If there is something glaringly obvious from the start, then an interim bulletin is published to avoid another occurrence happening during the deeper investigation. 

Failures generate learning. The skill is to make sure you’ve learned, and to stop things happening again. Failures should be investigated. To investigate requires an investigator. And then,  it requires humility and action from others to accept their part in the error chain and take the steps recommended.