Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Derek Flint]

10 minutes ago, Galen said:

While no fan of any our politicians, I feel that credit is due for the way that they, supported by public servants generally, got the Island through the first phase of Covid.

Sustaining that level of input to further phases of the pandemic was never going to easy and, for some, the toll is being being seen with the proverbial 'fraying around the edges' becoming increasingly evident.

There is always going to be egos bounding around when major events occur, but a mature government should be able to forecast that and make the necessary adjustments.

The fact that it would appear that they either didn't or were too arrogant to think they did not need to, is now being played out in public.

The 'blame game' rarely has outright winners, and most of the time everyone loses, and in this instance it may, regretfully, be the entire Manx nation. 

Let’s be clear; it wasn’t a hard solution to work. Closing the borders, a lockdown and bob’s your uncle. And arguably, if they had shut two weeks earlier and opened a quarantine Centre for returnees we might never have needed the lockdown.

And let’s remember - nobody knows where this is going. Have we seen prudence in the likes of mothballing or cancelling  major capital spends such as Liverpool landing stage? No. If anything we are spending more, to try and build our way out of difficulty. 

There were a few strokes of genius, but many more strokes of luck. The UK is faring far worse but it ultimately has the economies of scale to punch through. We don’t. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Derek Flint

[Apple]

The delays to yesterday's announcement from No 10, the suspected leaks, the political drama etc signified to me that we are are being lead by donkeys. What a farce at such an important point. people are fed up now I reckon. And still Dominic thee rule breaker gets away with it. And others.

 

4 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

if they had shut two weeks earlier and opened a quarantine Centre for returnees we might yyyyyy

hear, hear. 

[Sheldon]

4 hours ago, Apple said:

I am worried. 

Given that the Scottish SMP says she travelled with Covid as it "made her act out of character" then can the the CM be trusted to make rational decisions for exactly the same reasons. 

I wouldn't worry (well, not for that reason, anyway) because the Scottish MP is a lying arsehole. Even Dominic Cummings stopped short of such a blatant fabrication.

If we get the politicians we deserve, we must have done something really bad in a previous life.

[John Wright]

Oh to be in Guernsey or Jersey where politics is so much more mature.

Wait.

Gav, in Jersey won more than half the votes in an island wide poll and got kicked out.

Jersey is in even worse mess than IOM https://www.itv.com/news/channel/2020-11-01/gary-burgess-the-chief-ministers-weekend-crisis-meeting?fbclid=IwAR0lyVieEXFx_FraHCql7zxjdWJjTZTKMclUcHqQUWJlnroW2ZEGqu5JOv8

[thesultanofsheight]

4 hours ago, Galen said:

While no fan of any our politicians, I feel that credit is due for the way that they, supported by public servants generally, got the Island through the first phase of Covid.

A lot of the comments here, which are merely debating alternative options and solutions, have been interpreted as being critical of government when that isn’t really the intention. Closing the borders was a “no brainer” so nobody is questioning that. It was totally sensible. But it’s where the politics then took us not the science I always question. The biggest issue I have is the instant police state that was created and the network of snitchers and informers that was corralled and actively empowered and the over the top rules put in place like chucking folk in prison no questions asked were all presented as the effective solution when they weren’t really. Again that was resourcing and policing on the cheap rather than establishing any form of robust co-ordinated checking system (we still spunked money on things like the choo choo rails though and geared up the prom fiasco). We also could have had a much more open system that allowed a bit more travel (for instance Manx people to not be barred from returning to their homeland for one which Guernsey and Jersey never did) and some limited business travel options with enforced checking and tests on self isolators being at the core. But that didn’t happen we just had a petty police-state free for all on everyone’s rights and liberties and when testing reared it’s head as a means for more potential flexibility the same state turned on the person proposing more discussion. This has felt more like a population suppression and control mechanism than a science-based strategy to deal with covid for many months now. Any robust strategy should have been science led from day one. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[John Wright]

1 minute ago, Sheldon said:

I wouldn't worry (well, not for that reason, anyway) because the Scottish MP is a lying arsehole. Even Dominic Cummings stopped short of such a blatant fabrication.

If we get the politicians we deserve, we must have done something really bad in a previous life.

DC acted totally in character, a self centred, sociopathic,  lying git. Drove to Bernard Castle to test his eye sight! Plus didn’t declare his new home for council tax. A case of who you went to school with, who your wife worked with, who you’re in with.

[wrighty]

40 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The UK is faring far worse but it ultimately has the economies of scale to punch through. We don’t. 

We lack economy of scale, the UK suffers from diseconomy of scale - it’s too big to manage effectively. This explains the debacle of the national test and trace, the stupid rules that mean you could go to gym in Manchester but not Liverpool, the 4 nations doing what they please.  I could go on. Ditto the US. Economically all they have is borrowing ability. 

[pongo]

13 minutes ago, wrighty said:

Ditto the US. Economically all they have is borrowing ability. 

QE style expansion of the money supply isn't borrowing. It's not only about what govts can do when they work in concert with Central Banks.

Edited November 1, 2020 by pongo

[thesultanofsheight]

28 minutes ago, wrighty said:

 I could go on. Ditto the US. Economically all they have is borrowing ability. 

They need to. At the height there was about 60,000,000 people on state support schemes in the main industrialized countries. Yes SIXTY MILLION pushed out of employment due to covid. For a virus that kills less than 1% of the people it infects.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/may/12/how-the-uk-furlough-scheme-compares-with-other-countries

Edited November 1, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[Banker]

2 hours ago, Apple said:

The delays to yesterday's announcement from No 10, the suspected leaks, the political drama etc signified to me that we are are being lead by donkeys. What a farce at such an important point. people are fed up now I reckon. And still Dominic thee rule breaker gets away with it. And others.

 

hear, hear. 

You could say the same about here and the delays in the media conference whilst they got their story right about Rachel.

The idiotic reading of a supposed letter from the testing department was cringe worthy and Ashie & Howie performance was pathetic 

[Lxxx]

20 minutes ago, Banker said:

You could say the same about here and the delays in the media conference whilst they got their story right about Rachel.

The idiotic reading of a supposed letter from the testing department was cringe worthy and Ashie & Howie performance was pathetic 

I had to turn it off halfway through as it was so cringe-worthy. Is there no-one with any brains who could have advised them that it wasn't a wise thing to do or do they just bully everyone into accepting their views?

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, John Wright said:

Oh to be in Guernsey or Jersey where politics is so much more mature.

Wait.

Gav, in [Guernsey] won more than half the votes in an island wide poll and got kicked out.

Jersey is in even worse mess than IOM https://www.itv.com/news/channel/2020-11-01/gary-burgess-the-chief-ministers-weekend-crisis-meeting?fbclid=IwAR0lyVieEXFx_FraHCql7zxjdWJjTZTKMclUcHqQUWJlnroW2ZEGqu5JOv8

But at least they have the possibility of change - whether for good or ill.  Our system - in part paradoxically because there are too few politicians - ends up leaving all the decisions in the hands of self-interested civil servants and the politicians just nod through whatever they decide.

[Apple]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

DC acted totally in character, a self centred, sociopathic,  lying git. Drove to Bernard Castle to test his eye sight! Plus didn’t declare his new home for council tax. A case of who you went to school with, who your wife worked with, who you’re in with.

It's not like you to sit on the fence Mr Wright (although I couldn't agree more). 😊

[Zarley]

3 hours ago, wrighty said:

We lack economy of scale, the UK suffers from diseconomy of scale - it’s too big to manage effectively. This explains the debacle of the national test and trace, the stupid rules that mean you could go to gym in Manchester but not Liverpool, the 4 nations doing what they please.  I could go on. Ditto the US. Economically all they have is borrowing ability. 

The debacle of England's test and trace is purely down to the Tories effectively privatizing T&T by giving their mates contracts worth billions - contracts which were not even put out to tender. These mates' companies didn't even have the relevant knowledge or experience. 

If they had instead given that money to local NHS trusts and/or PHE for regional T&T systems, England would be in a very different position right now. And it would have cost the taxpayer's purse a helluva lot less.

[Two-lane]

16 minutes ago, Zarley said:

The debacle of England's test and trace is purely down to the Tories effectively privatizing T&T by giving their mates contracts worth billions - contracts which were not even put out to tender.

Like this one:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/09/14/government-awards-122-million-ppe-contract-to-one-month-old-firm/

Well, it seems the IoM is involved in one way or another.