Spat between Chief Minister and Dr Glover

[Boo Gay'n]

1 hour ago, buncha wankas said:

John Houghton paid the price for questioning public servant behaviours 

Please enlighten us John.

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, offshoremanxman said:

You mean weak.

I edited my post to add 'uninquiring' and 'vain', because for the kind of behaviour to continue, there has to be a degree of the Nelsonian eye.  It probably isn’t willful, but rather a predisposition to accept what is presented to you at face value, without inquiry.  Why would you not be inquisitive? Well, perhaps because the deference of those presenting to you appeals to your vanity.

Perhaps some of the senior, but relatively faceless, public servants in the more troublesome departments, are extremely adept at reversing out of the room whilst bowing with eyes affixed to the floor. 

You feel important, authorative, and valuable, possibly for the first time in your life.  Are you going to be a 'difficult' Minister and jeopardise that?  Meanwhile, you are caught in their thrall to swallow whatever is presented to you or not to seek out what is not being presented to you.  

Perhaps that over-egging it, but there has to be a reason for these instituonal dysfunctions to perpetuate. 

 

 

[Happier diner]

9 hours ago, buncha wankas said:

John Houghton paid the price for questioning public servant behaviours 

Perhaps not the best example. But point taken.

[Happier diner]

9 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

You mean weak.

IMO it's not weakness. It's the precariousness of their positions. They all strive for popularity because popularity gives them the votes and votes gives them the role. Without votes they are out. It's the weakness of our non party system.

[Non-Believer]

It amounts to one thing, maintaining the status quo of the system. Keep them divided ("independent") and they're easily conquered.

[joebean]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:06 PM, buncha wankas said:

John Houghton paid the price for questioning public servant behaviours 

Really? Nothing to do with being a preposterous bully; totally lacking in self-perception; opinionated without understanding the facts; being in possession of double-standards and the like? We all must have got him all wrong. As a reasoned and effective opponent of public service culture he actually failed miserably, hence the position we find ourselves in.

[buncha wankas]

5 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

It’s not just that. It’s this brainwashing everyone has had about party politics in the IOM. It’s complete rubbish that independent candidates are the way to go. Independent candidates are vulnerable to an ongoing popularity contest as you say but if they formed better political alliances or parties it would really transform Manx politics. But the mantra, fed by Cabinet Office and others, is that the IOM is all about independents as they know they’re the most weak and vulnerable representatives going who can always be outgunned. Any half decent party could totally transform Manx politics. 

But we don’t have a half decent party, so there goes that plan. 

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, buncha wankas said:

But we don’t have a half decent party, so there goes that plan. 

Perhaps we would if the system was changed.  It would be a major shift  but isn't unachievable and would bring a degree of certainty to the policy direction, rather than the current system.  Currently, manifestos set out aspirations which are only achievable if the other MHKs can be persuaded.  With a party system, manifesto delivery has more certainty as the winning party has the majority. 

At the moment, the government is only as good as the Chief Minister. 

[Non-Believer]

12 minutes ago, Gladys said:

At the moment, the government is only as good as the Chief Secretary.

Fixed, Glad.

[asitis]

7 hours ago, Gladys said:

At the moment, the government is only as good as the Chief Minister. 

...... and we've certainly had some beauties !

[code99]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:37 PM, Gladys said:

it does seem that being outside of the DHSC clique is not a nice place to be.

Anywhere no matter where one looks, one can find unaccountability, inefficiency and incompetence; some places more than others. The problem we have is that our small country is a hotchpotch of close-knit (and self-serving) cliques who tend to 'look after their own interests'  i.e., IOMG/CS/PS/CSP/Advocates/Estate Agents etc., plus a clique of rich entrepreneurial types who ‘are here today and gone tomorrow’ as soon as they flogged off their businesses CGT free. What is missing is a strong community with a sense of ‘belonging’, that is not restricted to Tynwald Day or to the ’80 seconds prayers’ ritual. We have some brilliant and dedicated individuals and some charity support, but this often is not enough to move the needle. IMHO, we should be more like Finland or Norway where citizens do embrace diversity and yet feel emotionally connected to their historical traditions and communities, and are willing to work for the good of their communities as a whole. In the IOM, at times, it feels less like a western free democracy and more like a ‘wild west’ where the only way to succeed is to ‘nobble’ vested-interests ‘groups’.

It seems though that the general public is not bothered about these sorts of things until they are personally affected, but by then, in most cases ‘the proverbial boat will have sailed’. Sadly, the IOM GEs come and go, but most things stay the same. This is primarily because to date there has not been any real appetite for meaningful change/reforms. Windbags like Robertshaw and Thomas talk a very good talk, but their ‘adages’ don’t attract a lot of supporters and at the end of the day, they rarely achieve anything practical. However, as the IOMG finances inevitably deteriorate under the double impact of inflated costs and less stable investment markets, my grave concern is that ‘this time will be different’ and the Island will not be able to dig itself out of this proverbial hole. 

[2112]

17 minutes ago, code99 said:

Anywhere no matter where one looks, one can find unaccountability, inefficiency and incompetence; some places more than others. The problem we have is that our small country is a hotchpotch of close-knit (and self-serving) cliques who tend to 'look after their own interests'  i.e., IOMG/CS/PS/CSP/Advocates/Estate Agents etc., plus a clique of rich entrepreneurial types who ‘are here today and gone tomorrow’ as soon as they flogged off their businesses CGT free. What is missing is a strong community with a sense of ‘belonging’, that is not restricted to Tynwald Day or to the ’80 seconds prayers’ ritual. We have some brilliant and dedicated individuals and some charity support, but this often is not enough to move the needle. IMHO, we should be more like Finland or Norway where citizens do embrace diversity and yet feel emotionally connected to their historical traditions and communities, and are willing to work for the good of their communities as a whole. In the IOM, at times, it feels less like a western free democracy and more like a ‘wild west’ where the only way to succeed is to ‘nobble’ vested-interests ‘groups’.

It seems though that the general public is not bothered about these sorts of things until they are personally affected, but by then, in most cases ‘the proverbial boat will have sailed’. Sadly, the IOM GEs come and go, but most things stay the same. This is primarily because to date there has not been any real appetite for meaningful change/reforms. Windbags like Robertshaw and Thomas talk a very good talk, but their ‘adages’ don’t attract a lot of supporters and at the end of the day, they rarely achieve anything practical. However, as the IOMG finances inevitably deteriorate under the double impact of inflated costs and less stable investment markets, my grave concern is that ‘this time will be different’ and the Island will not be able to dig itself out of this proverbial hole. 

All so true. 
 

The Entrepreneurial types coming lured by the locate.im campaign which in all honesty has been a complete waste of time and money, based upon the census findings. 
 

There are so many things that the IOM can do, but it won’t do. If it were to do something, it would require a couple of committees and legions of civil service, manpower of epic proportions from the DOI and the MHK brains trust and even then it will get cocked up. I think certain sectors of local society have a couldn’t care mentality, interested in themselves, their survival and their families survival, buts it’s getting worse year on year. 

[ubbiali]

On 2/7/2022 at 11:01 PM, Gladys said:

I edited my post to add 'uninquiring' and 'vain', because for the kind of behaviour to continue, there has to be a degree of the Nelsonian eye.  It probably isn’t willful, but rather a predisposition to accept what is presented to you at face value, without inquiry.  Why would you not be inquisitive? Well, perhaps because the deference of those presenting to you appeals to your vanity.

Perhaps some of the senior, but relatively faceless, public servants in the more troublesome departments, are extremely adept at reversing out of the room whilst bowing with eyes affixed to the floor. 

You feel important, authorative, and valuable, possibly for the first time in your life.  Are you going to be a 'difficult' Minister and jeopardise that?  Meanwhile, you are caught in their thrall to swallow whatever is presented to you or not to seek out what is not being presented to you.  

Perhaps that over-egging it, but there has to be a reason for these instituonal dysfunctions to perpetuate. 

 

 

I agree with your post. Surely Comin is the reason for the dysfunctions and numerous disasters, many of them well known, including two current financial fiascos.

Peter Karran had it right when describing the situation which obtains in the Isle of Man as "government by patronage". Nobody has put it better, before or since.

[Newsdesk]

Talk about bitter and twisted ..

[Lxxx]

I thought she had gone away?