TT 2022 ??

[WTF]

6 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

There is no course or path up Everest. Neither natural, worn not man made. I can assure you. No one makes an event up Everest. The only thing in common is death

whats the chances of all these people turning up on the same day then ?  looks like an organised event to me.  

[HeliX]

There doesn't need to be a comparison anyway. The event stands on its own merits.

[AOR]

10 minutes ago, WTF said:

whats the chances of all these people turning up on the same day then ?  looks like an organised event to me.  

I've gone down bigger slopes than that on a tea tray

[Gladys]

14 minutes ago, WTF said:

whats the chances of all these people turning up on the same day then ?  looks like an organised event to me.  

Are they just following the one in front, or a course? 

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Are they just following the one in front, or a course? 

[tuono]

1 hour ago, Youaintseenme said:

What did you expect them to say?

”unfortunately it has transpired that the idiotic French team breached event rules and all things common sense by switching dog tags.

This then meant that the normal identification process, which is fool proof and effective in getting news to teams and family as quickly as possible without the need for forensic examination and which works faultlessly if competitors aren’t complete idiots produced a wrong identification due to competitor selfishnesses an idiocy.

In future we will remind competitors of their basic requirements to do the decent thing and follow the sensible rules to avoid any undue stress to Marshall’s, medics, family, friends and event organisers in the future”

FFS.  There are only two people to blame here and personally I think the communication has all been very restrained given the backlash the event was suffered g because these guys deliberately broke the rules and regulations they signed up to when agreeing to compete.

Absolutely spot on, no doubt it will be dog tags AND leathers labels next time, not one or the other

[Happier diner]

26 minutes ago, HeliX said:

For arguments sake let's say it is and they do - now what? You can't assume they've swapped. You can't assume they've not swapped. The fault still lies with the swappers.

That's not true though is it? If it was known that swapping was common, why would you use the tags without question?

[Happier diner]

7 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Are they just following the one in front, or a course? 

They are clearly following the one in front. Never seen a path on snow.

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

That's not true though is it? If it was known that swapping was common, why would you use the tags without question?

Max says it wasn't a known thing.

[Gladys]

Just now, Happier diner said:

They are clearly following the one in front. Never seen a path on snow.

Presumably headed by a Sherpa or guide, who know the best path or course to take.  OK, its not a road, but there are established routes up Everest.

[Newbie]

28 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Whilst I agree the main fault is with the chaps that swapped and sadly died. However there are still some factors that the organisers and the wider police/coroner/health need to shoulder some responsibility.

Did they stress the importance of the tags to the riders.

Did they know that this swapping was common 

Is a tag a proper means of identifying a body. 

The importance of the identity tags is stressed to riders. The requirements are clear in the regulations, and all competitors must sign a declaration saying that they are familiar with the regulations. They have to attend a briefing, and there are specific briefings carried out in French. The tags also have to be presented by the competitors to the scrutineers during the technical inspection process. At some point you have to rely upon competitors doing the right thing.

The race organisers were completely unaware that sidecar riders/passengers may swap their ID tags. There have been posts here and elsewhere claiming that it was common knowledge. If it was common knowledge in the paddock why wasn't that information fed back to the Clerk of the Course by riders?

Dog tags have been used as a means of identifying competitors for many years and have always proved effective up until now. Other means of identifying riders such as RFID chips in helmets or ID sown in to leathers are likely to be no better. For instance, in this particular case neither competitor was found to have a helmet on after the incident. Riders also often have more than one set of leathers and more than one helmet. It is not inevitably the case that the leathers/helmet presented at scrutineering are the ones used in a race. It comes back to the point that at some stage the competitors have to be given some responsibility in all of this.

Other methods of identifying competitors that have been suggested such as use of dental records or DNA analysis are either completely impractical (as alluded to in John Wright's earlier post), or would result in significant delay in identification (in the case of DNA Analysis) which no doubt the organisers would then be criticised for.

It may well be that one of the recommendations to come out of this is that there needs to be more than one means of establishing the identity of an otherwise unidentifiable competitor, such as a dog tag AND identity permanently attached to their leathers, and if that is the case it will be a positive outcome from a situation that has few other positives. Even then, whilst that would reduce the risk of this happening again, it wouldn't eliminate it entirely. Given that this situation has never been encountered before, the suggestion that the race organisers should have somehow foreseen it and taken action earlier is, in my view, pushing it a bit.

 

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

Presumably headed by a Sherpa or guide, who know the best path or course to take.  OK, its not a road, but there are established routes up Everest.

 Analogy - a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects

I'll name you 100 things that are different. You might be able to name half a dozen that are comparable 

let's start with one involves a mountain but the other doesn't.🤣

[Happier diner]

6 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Max says it wasn't a known thing.

Fair enough. We seem to be getting conflicting information though!

I'd say I would go along with Max.

My gut feeling is, I think if it was common knowledge they wouldn't have relied on it. 

[Happier diner]

33 minutes ago, WTF said:

whats the chances of all these people turning up on the same day then ?  looks like an organised event to me.  

That's no Everest anyway. It's clearly north barrule. That's the cast if Roxanne does Ramsey if I'm not mistaken 

[TheTeapot]