TT 2022 ??

[Happier diner]

4 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Who is pretending it doesn't happen?

It was a generalisation. Not aimed at you. It's just an observation, but TT fans generally, in my experience, don't talk about it. That's understandable and human nature. It's not criticism as such. 

However, if this taboo were removed then perhaps people would see less of the romance of the event, and think more about the harsh reality. 

[Whiskey]

2 minutes ago, milestone 11 said:

That's patently nonsense.

Is it though. Think about it. 

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, Happier diner said:

It was a generalisation. Not aimed at you. It's just an observation, but TT fans generally, in my experience, don't talk about it. That's understandable and human nature. It's not criticism as such. 

However, if this taboo were removed then perhaps people would see less of the romance of the event, and think more about the harsh reality. 

I don't know if I agree with that explanation - people don't talk about it because it's less fun to talk about than the incredible racing and machinery. Some of them will be squeamish, but given most are bikers, a fair percentage will know someone who was severely injured or killed on motorbikes outside of the TT anyway.

[Happier diner]

3 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I don't know if I agree with that explanation - people don't talk about it because it's less fun to talk about than the incredible racing and machinery. Some of them will be squeamish, but given most are bikers, a fair percentage will know someone who was severely injured or killed on motorbikes outside of the TT anyway.

Yes I accept that. I wasn't really meaning when the talk to each other I mean when the subject comes up in the presence of non fans. 

The romance and excitement is portrayed in the imagery of the event. The outcome of accidents is less promoted. In fact it's ignored. 

[HeliX]

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes I accept that. I wasn't really meaning when the talk to each other I mean when the subject comes up in the presence of non fans. 

The romance and excitement is portrayed in the imagery of the event. The outcome of accidents is less promoted. In fact it's ignored. 

I don't think that's a TT phenomenon though - it's the same in any sport that has not infrequent negative outcomes. At the risk of making a comparison that people will spend ten pages arguing about the minute details of rather than taking the spirit of the comment... boxing, rugby, MMA etc all have bad health outcomes. But when people express their love for the sports to other people it's not like the lead with, or often talk about at all, those outcomes. Because that's not the bit people love, and nobody wants to talk to the guy who turns up at parties and tells everyone how many boxers end up with traumatic brain injuries.

[Happier diner]

Just now, HeliX said:

I don't think that's a TT phenomenon though - it's the same in any sport that has not infrequent negative outcomes. At the risk of making a comparison that people will spend ten pages arguing about the minute details of rather than taking the spirit of the comment... boxing, rugby, MMA etc all have bad health outcomes. But when people express their love for the sports to other people it's not like the lead with, or often talk about at all, those outcomes. Because that's not the bit people love, and nobody wants to talk to the guy who turns up at parties and tells everyone how many boxers end up with traumatic brain injuries.

Seems the dangers of boxing, heading footballs and rugby head injuries has been the subject of much debate recently. All those sports are under pressure to make improvements.

For me, I don't see that with TT. I'm done with it for now. If they don't change something at Ago's before the next installment of the sidecar story, I'll be done with it for good or at least until they do.

[HeliX]

14 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Seems the dangers of boxing, heading footballs and rugby head injuries has been the subject of much debate recently. All those sports are under pressure to make improvements.

For me, I don't see that with TT. I'm done with it for now. If they don't change something at Ago's before the next installment of the sidecar story, I'll be done with it for good or at least until they do.

I think safety is under constant review. I think where we differ is over what is safe "enough"...

[The Voice of Reason]

41 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Yes you are correct. I should have googled first. 

That’s OK. No problem.

[Annoymouse]

1 hour ago, Newbie said:

Dog tags have always been used in the past to confirm the ID of riders who are unable to be identified, and have always until now proved reliable. The dog tags were not located at the scene as they were inside the leathers in quite small, fairly well concealed pockets. They were subsequently recovered at the hospital. Prior to that, their photographs (obtained at the start of the event) were used to try to identify them. Suffice to say that after the incident, neither of them resembled those photographs. They were also checked for any identifying features but neither had any listed on their passports, and none were evident on them. They both had both of their names on their leathers. Once the dog tags were recovered (by separate people at separate locations) there was no reason not to believe the information they provided.

So how were they identified? because if neither of them could be identified from a photograph then surely the family wouldn’t be able to identify them either.

1 hour ago, Youaintseenme said:

I think most people are trying to avoid the gory details here, but for the hard of thinking how much help do you think a photo is when both riders helmets have come off?

It was their responsibility to wear the correct tags.  It is a very simple and fairly failsafe system if the people wearing them do the one very simple thing asked of them.

Both helmets came off? Is that actually a fact? Well if that’s the case it’s nothing short of a miracle that Olivier is now considered stable, you wouldn’t expect anyone to survive that.

If everything that’s been written by the both of you can be considered fact then I accept the reason for misidentification, but I think only identifying by use of dog tags is something that needs to be changed to ever stop this happening again in future.

[Happier diner]

6 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I think safety is under constant review. I think where we differ is over what is safe "enough"...

Review but never change. Remember Ayrton Senna. Tamburello corner at Imola. Deemed to fast, too dangerous. Isn't it a chicane now?

One death in F1 in many years. Not acceptable. Immediate changes. 2 deaths in consecutive races here. Will there be any significant changes to the circuit. Well let's see shall we?

[Happier diner]

3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

That’s OK. No problem.

Seems things have changed since Chris Bonnington came to my school to give a talk on Everest😁

[The Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Seems things have changed since Chris Bonnington came to my school to give a talk on Everest😁

Afraid so. And not always for the better.

[Kopek]

Actually, two deaths at Imola that weekend, Roland Ratzenberger died in a practice session.

[wrighty]

58 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I don't think that's a TT phenomenon though - it's the same in any sport that has not infrequent negative outcomes. At the risk of making a comparison that people will spend ten pages arguing about the minute details of rather than taking the spirit of the comment... boxing, rugby, MMA etc all have bad health outcomes. But when people express their love for the sports to other people it's not like the lead with, or often talk about at all, those outcomes. Because that's not the bit people love, and nobody wants to talk to the guy who turns up at parties and tells everyone how many boxers end up with traumatic brain injuries.

Rugby. Get knocked on the head playing that and you’re out for a week. Mandatory. TT - come off at high speed, and if you say you feel ok you can go again. 
 

Just one example when the organisers seem to disregard opportunities to make things safer. 

[Whiskey]

15 minutes ago, wrighty said:

Rugby. Get knocked on the head playing that and you’re out for a week. Mandatory. TT - come off at high speed, and if you say you feel ok you can go again. 
 

Just one example when the organisers seem to disregard opportunities to make things safer. 

There used to be a standing joke that if you could climb the steps to the top of the control tower for your medical exam post crash, you passed.