Brexit Penny Dropping?

[P.K.]

2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

This is one of the whole reasons for the Brexit vote.

Don’t you get it ?. Britons were sick of kow towing to rules and laws  made elsewhere.

If you are happy to sacrifice sovereignty for ease of paperwork then fair enough.

Do you understand that every trade deal you make, like the "negative benefit to the UK" deal struck by Liz Truss with NZ, requires you to surrender some of your so-called "sovereignty" during the negotiations?

Didn't think so....

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Do you understand that every trade deal you make, like the "negative benefit to the UK" deal struck by Liz Truss with NZ, requires you to surrender some of your so-called "sovereignty" during the negotiations?

Didn't think so....

The deal struck by Liz Truss, and the terms thereof, was  made by the UK and NZ governments.

You can argue whether the deal is advantageous or disadvantageous to the UK (or indeed New Zealand)

But it was negotiated by the UK, as all future deals will be, not by some third party (EU) binding them to it.

Would you be happy if I was in a position to tell you what make or type of new car you should buy?

Now do you understand?

[P.K.]

13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

The deal struck by Liz Truss, and the terms thereof, was  made by the UK and NZ governments.

You can argue whether the deal is advantageous or disadvantageous to the UK (or indeed New Zealand)

But it was negotiated by the UK, as all future deals will be, not by some third party (EU) binding them to it.

Would you be happy if I was in a position to tell you what make or type of new car you should buy?

Now do you understand?

What a facile so-called argument. The EU is a democratic institution in which the UK played a part in the decision making processes. What, you think all those UK-elected MEP's just walked in off the street or something? In the very unlikely event they were formulating policies the UK couldn't or wouldn't enact then we could veto them. Unlike now....

The bottom line is that you simply can't ignore the world's largest single market area sitting on your doorstep.

Unfortunately, exactly as the EFTA countries warned prior to that stupid referendum, the UK has gone from being an EU rule maker to just another EU rule taker trading with the EU under "third country" status with absolutely no say in the T&C's.

Fools...

[The Voice of Reason]

5 hours ago, P.K. said:

What a facile so-called argument. The EU is a democratic institution in which the UK played a part in the decision making processes. What, you think all those UK-elected MEP's just walked in off the street or something? In the very unlikely event they were formulating policies the UK couldn't or wouldn't enact then we could veto them. Unlike now....

The bottom line is that you simply can't ignore the world's largest single market area sitting on your doorstep.

Unfortunately, exactly as the EFTA countries warned prior to that stupid referendum, the UK has gone from being an EU rule maker to just another EU rule taker trading with the EU under "third country" status with absolutely no say in the T&C's.

Fools...

Yes the UK played a part in the decision making process (“part” being the operative word).

You had 27 countries ( now26) all naturally trying to look after their own interests. How could that work? Answer : it didn’t . the smaller countries say Lithuania just voted with whatever their French and German counterparts decided.

How a referendum, held to decide the will of the people which an elected UK Government said in its manifesto would be held can be described as “stupid” I don’t know. It’s the kind of language we have come to expect from the sore losers.

Yes the UK now has third country status with the EU, in the same way that the EU has third party status with the UK, who will be all the better for it. The UK will not ignore the worlds largest market sitting on its doorstep as you suggest but will not be constrained by it. 

[Mr. Sausages]

 

[pongo]

58 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes the UK now has third country status with the EU, in the same way that the EU has third party status with the UK, who will be all the better for it. The UK will not ignore the worlds largest market sitting on its doorstep as you suggest but will not be constrained by it. 

It's quickly starting to feel like third-class status, the UK no longer being part of the the worlds largest market. The shortages of good and labour etc. Life not being as good as it was. Fewer opportunities and less freedom.

Brexit was a truly dumb thing to be allowed to happen.

[Freggyragh]

58 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes the UK played a part in the decision making process (“part” being the operative word).

You had 27 countries ( now26) all naturally trying to look after their own interests. How could that work? Answer : it didn’t . the smaller countries say Lithuania just voted with whatever their French and German counterparts decided.

How a referendum, held to decide the will of the people which an elected UK Government said in its manifesto would be held can be described as “stupid” I don’t know. It’s the kind of language we have come to expect from the sore losers.

Yes the UK now has third country status with the EU, in the same way that the EU has third party status with the UK, who will be all the better for it. The UK will not ignore the worlds largest market sitting on its doorstep as you suggest but will not be constrained by it. 

Problem is, you're assuming all markets are equal, and they are not. The UK, as one of the larger voices in the EU benefited from membership of the most powerful market on earth. It now has to share sovereignty with every nation on earth, most of whom are members of powerful trade unions already and will shaft the UK's relatively unimportant market every time - so far less sovereignty and far worse trade deals for the UK. It's going to take a while to truly understand the scale of the Brexit disaster, but as the billionaires are doing well out of it we will have to put up with it and accept the shortages, the costs & the loss of freedoms for a good few more years yet. 

[pongo]

20 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

You can argue whether the deal is advantageous or disadvantageous to the UK (or indeed New Zealand)

But it was negotiated by the UK, as all future deals will be, not by some third party (EU) binding them to it.

Now do you understand?

This is like arguing that London forces trade agreements on Liverpool. Or Scotland. Or some little village you have never heard off. 

[The Voice of Reason]

34 minutes ago, pongo said:

This is like arguing that London forces trade agreements on Liverpool. Or Scotland. Or some little village you have never heard off. 

Of.

No it’s nothing like arguing that.

[The Voice of Reason]

45 minutes ago, pongo said:

 

Brexit was a truly dumb thing to be allowed to happen.

Allowed to happen?

It happened as a result of a democratic vote. 

What sort of a state do you want to live in?

Edited September 19, 2021 by The Voice of Reason

[joebean]

Stop debating with Remainers. They just don't get it and think that the EU is the be all and end all. The UK is out. That is all that matters.

[The Voice of Reason]

22 minutes ago, joebean said:

Stop debating with Remainers. They just don't get it and think that the EU is the be all and end all. The UK is out. That is all that matters.

Yes good advice. 

Thank you

[pongo]

42 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

What sort of a state do you want to live in?

Definitely not angry little England.

[Freggyragh]

38 minutes ago, joebean said:

Stop debating with Remainers. They just don't get it and think that the EU is the be all and end all. The UK is out. That is all that matters.

Yes, there is no point in debating brexit. Honda has closed, having already lost 7,500 jobs the City is just holding on until the euro-clearing extension ends next year, farming & fishing are screwed, Great Britain has a trade border with Northern Ireland, there's a food shortage, a parts shortage and a power shortage, a possibility of a return to the 1970s three-day week, unprocessed sewage is being pumped into the rivers, poorer areas like Cornwall have lost their  EU regional funding, small traders have lost access to the EU market, pubs, retailers, restaurants & hotels can't find staff, there is a huge shortage of lorry drivers, dentists and other healthcare professionals, airlines and other international companies have moved their HQs out of the UK, etc., etc. But to hardcore believers none of that matters because the UK is out. It's going to take a little longer and a lot more pain I'm afraid. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Freggyragh

[P.K.]

28 minutes ago, joebean said:

Stop debating with Remainers. They just don't get it and think that the EU is the be all and end all. The UK is out. That is all that matters.

What matters is the price we will ALL have to pay for the misled, misguided and deliberately misinformed folks who were duped into voting for brexit by the UK rabid right wing press in thrall to the agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it, and self-centred chancers like Farage, Gove and Johnson.

At the Maastricht Treaty of 1992 the UK contingent left hardly believing their luck at having signed up with the best deal in the best trading bloc on the planet.

All pissed away because it's a lot easier to believe a simple lie than it ever will be to understand a complex truth...