WTF Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 3 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said: Poaching people from other countries is never going to solve the situation. How many young Manx people are going into medicine and related professions? quite a few , and then they fuck off to better places. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Grumpy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 We'd have to shut down almost all health services on island if we stopped poaching staff from other countries with health systems that are failing (I include the UK here) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 “Poaching” is a handy virtue-signalling short form, but is it really accurate? If we have the vacancies and qualified staff from other countries are keen to apply, should we be the ones to say “no, it’s not fair to your home country”? How to retain homegrown staff is part of a much bigger fundamental question… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: “Poaching” is a handy virtue-signalling short form, but is it really accurate? If we have the vacancies and qualified staff from other countries are keen to apply, should we be the ones to say “no, it’s not fair to your home country”? How to retain homegrown staff is part of a much bigger fundamental question… a consideration with home grown staff in a jurisdiction as tiny as this is that there is a good chance you will end up dealing with a family member or friend , or friend of a friend etc so it may be awkward for some patients and maybe doctors as a perceived level of familiarity could be felt. if they were being dealt with by someone from else where who is not going to know them or their friends socially it adds a level of privacy to things. Edited May 14 by WTF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 42 minutes ago, WTF said: a consideration with home grown staff in a jurisdiction as tiny as this is that there is a good chance you will end up dealing with a family member or friend , or friend of a friend etc so it may be awkward for some patients and maybe doctors as a perceived level of familiarity could be felt. if they were being dealt with by someone from else where who is not going to know them or their friends socially it adds a level of privacy to things Completely agree - 100%. Not something that’s mentioned often in all the noise about home-grown staff, but as valid an issue for the professionals as it is for the patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Jarndyce said: “Poaching” is a handy virtue-signalling short form, but is it really accurate? If we have the vacancies and qualified staff from other countries are keen to apply, should we be the ones to say “no, it’s not fair to your home country”? How to retain homegrown staff is part of a much bigger fundamental question… What about, say, refugees? If any are medically qualified, do we tell them to go back home and not employ them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 3 hours ago, WTF said: a consideration with home grown staff in a jurisdiction as tiny as this is that there is a good chance you will end up dealing with a family member or friend , or friend of a friend etc so it may be awkward for some patients and maybe doctors as a perceived level of familiarity could be felt. if they were being dealt with by someone from else where who is not going to know them or their friends socially it adds a level of privacy to things. Bollocks. There are elderly Manx people in care homes being looked after by foreign carers who know nothing about the Island or the people they're looking after. That's not their fault and it's no criticism of them but we should be employing more locally trained workers in all sectors, particularly Health and Care. Government don't want to do it and would rather import foreign workers. It's economic policy and it's been that way for a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Bollocks. There are elderly Manx people in care homes being looked after by foreign carers who know nothing about the Island or the people they're looking after. That's not their fault and it's no criticism of them but we should be employing more locally trained workers in all sectors, particularly Health and Care. Government don't want to do it and would rather import foreign workers. It's economic policy and it's been that way for a long time. Local people don't want to do it for the same wages either? There's low unemployment and many 'better' jobs going for 'locals'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 You say that there's low unemployment but how many people are on benefits, not seeking work, or in zero hours/low paid jobs when they could be in proper jobs getting training, future security and full employment rights ? There are also hundreds of teenagers still in full-time education when they should be in first jobs. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 22 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: You say that there's low unemployment but how many people are on benefits, not seeking work, or in zero hours/low paid jobs when they could be in proper jobs getting training, future security and full employment rights I don’t know: do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 36 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: Government don't want to do it and would rather import foreign workers. It's economic policy and it's been that way for a long time. I wouldn’t disagree. But I certainly don’t have a problem with foreign workers and the “poaching” thing sounds like a cop-out way of not employing them. Also, even if government policy changed overnight, we would still need foreign workers to plug the gap until local workers were trained and ready to start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: There are elderly Manx people in care homes being looked after by foreign carers who know nothing about the Island or the people they're looking after. That's not their fault and it's no criticism of them You’ve stated that explicitly - and yet your previous sentence still sounds like an implied criticism. For avoidance of doubt, I’m not in a care home - but some of the best, most caring treatment that I’ve received on the island has been from foreign doctors and nurses. Edited May 14 by Jarndyce Syntax 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 For avoidance of doubt, I agree with you. I've had fantastic care in the Manx NHS from professional doctors and nurses from many different countries. I've been impressed with them all without exception. I've told them that too. Couldn't wish for better care. The best. That do yer ? But it wasn't my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: That do yer ? But it wasn't my point. Thanks, yes. But I agreed with your point about IOMG economic policy in a comment above. So, if I've still managed to miss your fundamental point, can you boil it down into one statement for me? Assume I'm an idiot. Many thanks. Edited May 14 by Jarndyce Clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, Shake me up Judy said: You say that there's low unemployment but how many people are on benefits, not seeking work, or in zero hours/low paid jobs when they could be in proper jobs getting training, future security and full employment rights ? There are also hundreds of teenagers still in full-time education when they should be in first jobs. bring back slavery then ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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