Does It Matter If A Candidate Is Not 'manx' Or Island Born?

[Albert Tatlock]

I ask this poll as a Manxman by the way.

 

Does it really matter if a candidate is Manx or/and was born here, or is it enough that he/she is committed and loyal to the island and dealing with it's national and international politics in the interests of islanders?

 

At then end of the day, there are few true Manx people left (with grandfathers born here etc.) and like it or not we all hold British passports and are classed as British citizens - as we are not an independent nation and are a crown dependency. According to the last published census in 2006, 56% of people living here were not born here (and god only knows what the figure will be when the 2011 census is published in early 2012).

 

For example, should voters vote for a person that was born here, in preference to someone more capable that was not?

 

I could understand the logic of voting for someone born here if the intellect and abilities of the Manx born candidate were on a par with another candidate not born here. But I do not understand that logic if the candidate is far more capable and fully committed to the island.

[wheels]

Country and place of birth and location irrelevant (even if it's a council house)

Ability is required not nationality.

[macmannin]

No it doesnt matter, though......When I hear the frequent caller Paul on Talking heads I often say to myself "Fuck off you Cockney C*&t".

[Barrie Stevens]

I ask this poll as a Manxman by the way.

 

Does it really matter if a candidate is Manx or/and was born here, or is it enough that he/she is committed and loyal to the island and dealing with it's national and international politics in the interests of islanders?

 

At then end of the day, there are few true Manx people left (with grandfathers born here etc.) and like it or not we all hold British passports and are classed as British citizens - as we are not an independent nation and are a crown dependency. According to the last published census in 2006, 56% of people living here were not born here (and god only knows what the figure will be when the 2011 census is published in early 2012).

 

For example, should voters vote for a person that was born here, in preference to someone more capable that was not?

 

I could understand the logic of voting for someone born here if the intellect and abilities of the Manx born candidate were on a par with another candidate not born here. But I do not understand that logic if the candidate is far more capable and fully committed to the island.

 

That definition of a "Manxman" is artificial ie self and all four grandparents, born, registered, naturalised or adopted on the Island etc...It was introduced when the UK joined the "Common Market" and was not ethnic...it was designed to set a point of reference in regard to Work Permits (Which the Island wished to retain as it did not want to join the Single Market...and so remains shut out to this day)....and the limiting of Manxmen so defined for economic reasons and who thus would not be entitled to the Full Monty of Establishment save in the UK...(Sort of Tit for Tat)

 

One ceases to be a Manxman after five years ordinarily resident in the UK..(And then gains the Full Monty in the EU ie the right of Establishment)

 

A few years ago (2006?)people were astounded to learn that they could not put "Manxman" as nationality on the forms needed to stand as an MHK....They had to be British or Irish....

 

Next year the law was changed so that one could say "Manxman" but this was strictly for on-Island use only.

 

The Irish from the Republic are also entitled to stand for MHK within the rules...I am not sure of the rules as regards people from the EU as the Island is not "in" for the "free movement of people" and thus EU people other than British and Irish may not be qualified to stand.

 

The Irish are able to stand for historical reasons and that established long before "Europe" when they had the right to stand and for MP in London also.

 

Around about the turn of the last century Tynwald produced a report on Independence and at that time there were reportedly 11,700 Manxman as defined by Protocol 3 ie self and all four Grandparents etc as above...

 

The Island periodically reports to "Europe" on how many Manxmen as defined under Protocol 3 still survive.

 

When the last artificially defined Manxman fades into extinction I suppose Protocol 3 will expire in this regard.

 

Returning to Independence, the same report also emphasised that Manxmen so defined by Protocol 3 (See above)would need work permits for the UK on the stroke of Midnight on Independence Day and would at this same time then become true Manxmen ......but likewise cease to be automatically British......

[Barrie Stevens]

No it doesnt matter, though......When I hear the frequent caller Paul on Talking heads I often say to myself "Fuck off you Cockney C*&t".

 

Spoken like a true Manxman! (PS I did just that!)

[Snowflake]

No it doesnt matter, though......When I hear the frequent caller Paul on Talking heads I often say to myself "Fuck off you Cockney C*&t".

 

Spoken like a true Manxman! (PS I did just that!)

What? f**ked off?

 

Why you still here then?

 

Dental Flosser.

[Theodolite]

One of the candidates in Douglas East seems to think it is very, very important. She forever seems to be spouting that she was born in Douglas East. In an Irish accent as deep, strong and potent as a vat of Guinness .

 

I think it is fair to say that with the majority of residents now being non-Manx born then in a democracy it is entirely irrelevant. Perhaps it always was.

 

If it mattered one iota then there would be a move to make sure only people born on the Island can stand. And vote.

[Vanity]

I think what matters is that candidates are honest about their nationality and don't use Manx connections in order to appeal to the Manx people and call themselves Manx even though they were not born here nor have lived here for much of their lives. If English, Irish, American, Spanish, etc people asked them what nationality they are, would they say Manx or would they say British? I can think of at least one candidate who claims to be a Manx Man when they most certainly and clearly are not.

 

I think the majority of Manx people would say they are Manx, not British. I for one always tick the 'other' box when asked what nationality I am if Manx isn't an option. I am proud of my roots and the fact that I was born and raised here. I actually think that some Manx people may be intimidated and not stand against a non-Manx candidate as the views of non-Manx voters (the majority in some areas)are that a non-Manx candidate could do a better job as they have lived elsewhere and may be more 'worldly' with more life experience and even have an accent more acceptable to the non-Manx electorate. It's a fact. Manx candidates are facing discrimination just for being Manx! Maybe the question for many should be: 'Even if another candidate born on the Island was more capable, would you still only vote for non Island born candidate?'

[wheels]

I think it is fair to say that with the majority of residents now being non-Manx born then in a democracy it is entirely irrelevant. Perhaps it always was.

If it mattered one iota then there would be a move to make sure only people born on the Island can stand. And vote.

God help us if that happened.

 

 

I can think of at least one candidate who claims to be a Manx Man when they most certainly and clearly are not.

One candidate also seems to unduly raise/emphasise concerns on 'incomers' which is not only fairly irrelevant in an open society (as quote top above) but also seems divisive.

[Pierrot Lunaire]

Manx candidates are facing discrimination just for being Manx!

Really? My instinct is shouting "Bollocks!", but I'm willing to wait for an example of why it isn't. Bollocks that is..

[Tugger]

It's not for me, but I am sure it is for some. That's why everyone is trying to sound so Manx on these radio interviews

[manxie44]

I ask this poll as a Manxman by the way.

 

Does it really matter if a candidate is Manx or/and was born here, or is it enough that he/she is committed and loyal to the island and dealing with it's national and international politics in the interests of islanders?

 

At then end of the day, there are few true Manx people left (with grandfathers born here etc.) and like it or not we all hold British passports and are classed as British citizens - as we are not an independent nation and are a crown dependency. According to the last published census in 2006, 56% of people living here were not born here (and god only knows what the figure will be when the 2011 census is published in early 2012).

 

For example, should voters vote for a person that was born here, in preference to someone more capable that was not?

 

I could understand the logic of voting for someone born here if the intellect and abilities of the Manx born candidate were on a par with another candidate not born here. But I do not understand that logic if the candidate is far more capable and fully committed to the island.

I assume you include other Nationalities than English in this latest pole

[manxie44]

I ask this poll as a Manxman by the way.

 

Does it really matter if a candidate is Manx or/and was born here, or is it enough that he/she is committed and loyal to the island and dealing with it's national and international politics in the interests of islanders?

 

At then end of the day, there are few true Manx people left (with grandfathers born here etc.) and like it or not we all hold British passports and are classed as British citizens - as we are not an independent nation and are a crown dependency. According to the last published census in 2006, 56% of people living here were not born here (and god only knows what the figure will be when the 2011 census is published in early 2012).

 

For example, should voters vote for a person that was born here, in preference to someone more capable that was not?

 

I could understand the logic of voting for someone born here if the intellect and abilities of the Manx born candidate were on a par with another candidate not born here. But I do not understand that logic if the candidate is far more capable and fully committed to the island.

 

That definition of a "Manxman" is artificial ie self and all four grandparents, born, registered, naturalised or adopted on the Island etc...It was introduced when the UK joined the "Common Market" and was not ethnic...it was designed to set a point of reference in regard to Work Permits (Which the Island wished to retain as it did not want to join the Single Market...and so remains shut out to this day)....and the limiting of Manxmen so defined for economic reasons and who thus would not be entitled to the Full Monty of Establishment save in the UK...(Sort of Tit for Tat)

 

One ceases to be a Manxman after five years ordinarily resident in the UK..(And then gains the Full Monty in the EU ie the right of Establishment)

 

A few years ago (2006?)people were astounded to learn that they could not put "Manxman" as nationality on the forms needed to stand as an MHK....They had to be British or Irish....

 

Next year the law was changed so that one could say "Manxman" but this was strictly for on-Island use only.

 

The Irish from the Republic are also entitled to stand for MHK within the rules...I am not sure of the rules as regards people from the EU as the Island is not "in" for the "free movement of people" and thus EU people other than British and Irish may not be qualified to stand.

 

The Irish are able to stand for historical reasons and that established long before "Europe" when they had the right to stand and for MP in London also.

 

Around about the turn of the last century Tynwald produced a report on Independence and at that time there were reportedly 11,700 Manxman as defined by Protocol 3 ie self and all four Grandparents etc as above...

 

The Island periodically reports to "Europe" on how many Manxmen as defined under Protocol 3 still survive.

 

When the last artificially defined Manxman fades into extinction I suppose Protocol 3 will expire in this regard.

 

Returning to Independence, the same report also emphasised that Manxmen so defined by Protocol 3 (See above)would need work permits for the UK on the stroke of Midnight on Independence Day and would at this same time then become true Manxmen ......but likewise cease to be automatically British......

What is a true Englishman, have you been watching the Cricket Tests ?

[Declan]

Are only people born here Manx?

[pauld]

I think any foreigners, norsemen etc, that have been buried here for a thousand years or more could be said to have earnt the right to be called manx.

 

Where do you want to be buried dec.

 

As to your Q, i would consider a child born in enland to real manx resident parents manx.