Slim Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 But not the profit on the investment? Still 25% in my book. It's £2.50 to £3.75. It's not rocket science like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 As I have said before, and I will say again, this investment is reported in such a way by all involved that the chances of the man in the street being able to make a judgement on it are virtually nil. Yes the shares have risen by 50% and yes there is a profit made on those shares sold which I applaud . However and it is a big however, in the overall scheme of things it is difficult to understand where the return on investment makes any sense, when (and I appreciate these figures may be wrong) we are down 50 million on the MDF to a basket case of films which will end up in the pound box at dealz ! I am quite willing to eat humble pie when we can see an audited balance sheet showing how good an investment this is for the taxpayers of the Isle of Man, and not just for a few people ! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I thought it was £24 million that was put into Pinewood shares. Now we've got about £10 million invested. Nope. 24 million was the original proposal, but they only bought half of the shares. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-18519898 Did the BBC get it wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I thought it was £24 million that was put into Pinewood shares. Now we've got about £10 million invested. Nope. 24 million was the original proposal, but they only bought half of the shares. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-18519898 Did the BBC get it wrong? No. The original agreement was for 20% at a cost of £24 million, but in the event only half as many shares were purchased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am quite willing to eat humble pie when we can see an audited balance sheet showing how good an investment this is for the taxpayers of the Isle of Man, and not just for a few people ! You never will. The profit from the share purchase will be evident, but the return from film investment's always going to be hard to ascertain exactly as it's a development fund not an investment fund. Long tails, promotion of local business relating to films, boat/hotel bookings etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I am quite willing to eat humble pie when we can see an audited balance sheet showing how good an investment this is for the taxpayers of the Isle of Man, and not just for a few people ! You never will. The profit from the share purchase will be evident, but the return from film investment's always going to be hard to ascertain exactly as it's a development fund not an investment fund. Long tails, promotion of local business relating to films, boat/hotel bookings etc. Thanks Slim, I for one am uneasy with the situation where public money in the long millions cannot be quantified. In my opinion the Government have a duty to be able to show unequivocally what they have done with other peoples money especially where huge fees to third parties are involved who are so close to the establishment. Simplistically the promotion of the film industry to the tune of the millions we have done is difficult to swallow in these straitened times ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 You never will. The profit from the share purchase will be evident, but the return from film investment's always going to be hard to ascertain exactly as it's a development fund not an investment fund. Long tails, promotion of local business relating to films, boat/hotel bookings etc. So bit like the TT then.....inevitable and unquantifiable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 So bit like the TT then.....inevitable and unquantifiable.... Well like many things government supports. What's the economic return of agriculture grants, of reduced vat on building and development, of fix asset grants to business, of increasing the budget for primary school teacher training, of building a new road to the airport... Government tries to support without there being a quantifiable return. In this case, it's all a bit muddied by the history. The fund started as a way to either fiddle vat or encourage a film industry here, or a bit of both. It's been moving towards being more of a managed investment so it's all a bit messy and confusing. Still, I'd have thought for those who think it's a waste of time, that reducing our exposure and taking a profit is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sick Moon Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Still, I'd have thought for those who think it's a waste of time, that reducing our exposure and taking a profit is a good thing. You haven't accounted for Autobleat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I am quite willing to eat humble pie when we can see an audited balance sheet showing how good an investment this is for the taxpayers of the Isle of Man, and not just for a few people ! You never will. The profit from the share purchase will be evident, but the return from film investment's always going to be hard to ascertain exactly as it's a development fund not an investment fund. Long tails, promotion of local business relating to films, boat/hotel bookings etc. is that why the sefton is selling the suites paid for by taxpayer because they have publicly said there had been no bookings? no profit has been made, its all smoke and mirrors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 So Slim why do you think someone bought the shares at that price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 So Slim why do you think someone bought the shares at that price? I couldn't possibly know, but presumably because they considered it a good investment? The shares were released at a 12% discount so that could be quite attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestedman Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Slim is right - we will never know the truth really about the film industry although we can surmise that it started life as a great big VAT fiddle. The Government have I think managed to evidence that in the Oxford Economics report that they commissioned to justify the Pinewood investment which states that Government made £460m in equity and tax from 97 films between 1995 and 2011. That is an average return of £4.75m PER FILM. Incredible figures when we know that most of the films were never seen or heard of again. Our most successful film was Waking Ned that has taken $55m, Stormbreaker did OK with $30m but Chico and Rita for instance did not top $200k. I say "our" films, but of course many of these films only had short scenes filmed on the Island. The flaws in the figures are somewhat exposed by Oxford Economics who go on to say that future film under the Pinewood deal might generate £85k in tax revenues per film. I'll leave you to make your own interpretations but one things for sure I don't think we (the public) will ever get to the truth.....although HMRC might. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wann Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Incredible figures when we know that most of the films were never seen or heard of again. And never intended to? Yep, there was a heckuva lot of hard cash floating about though. One film in the late 1990s had people queing up and being handed out cash, as extras. They didn't even have to give their name. I got a couple of phone calls from people I knew who worked on one film telling me to come up and join the queue, no questions asked. (I didn't) Another film where it seemed money was no object seemingly only made a dvd release in some European country (I suppose ticked enough boxes for whatever the business plan needed). I still never got paid off the local scum running some of that particular operation....grrr. Although it didn't stop the likes of a block of cannabis resin the size of a block of butter being flaunted about at one of the film parties. How much is a pound of that these days? I've never seen more than an oxo cube size of the stuff in my life. Not mine I hasten to add but in my student days these things were knocking about. Anyway, I think the Isle of Man film industry needs to take a closer look at itself before fraternising with the big boys. But not the profit on the investment? Still 25% in my book. It's £2.50 to £3.75. It's not rocket science like. Maybe IoM Gov sold at a good enough time. £5.00 would have been better though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 so does the mangement fee now reduce by the same percentage now there is less to manage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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