HeliX Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: I don't repeatedly ignore it but IMHO it simply has zero bearing on the situation. In any event expecting politicians to be perfect really is cloud cuckoo land. https://youtu.be/sEjWbIJKmNU?si=uMSEVVLfiCXKlCJ2 Video of celebrations in London on hearing of the slaughter of Jews by Hamas. Something you claim just didn't happen. It was filmed by Rachel Riley. Who then went on Newsnight to say how disgusting it was... It has bearing on who you can lay blame on for Hamas attacks. And that list includes the Israel Govt, no matter how many times you insist it doesn't. I didn't say there are 0 people celebrating the attacks. I asked how many there were and then said it's irrelevant and that it doesn't justify violence in Gaza in exactly the same way that Israelis celebrating the destruction of Gaza doesn't justify violence in Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Just now, HeliX said: It has bearing on who you can lay blame on for Hamas attacks. And that list includes the Israel Govt, no matter how many times you insist it doesn't. I didn't say there are 0 people celebrating the attacks. I asked how many there were and then said it's irrelevant and that it doesn't justify violence in Gaza in exactly the same way that Israelis celebrating the destruction of Gaza doesn't justify violence in Israel. You're a joke! I don't think it has any bearing at all compared to Iran! According to you the blame for terrorists and their brutal attacks is all Israel's fault for existing... I guess it makes sense to you. However... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Voting isn't the issue is it. It is supporting an organisation with a political philosophy that is genocidal to Jews, which goes out and deliberately massacres them. Hamas IS in the political mainstream of Palestinian politics and was seeking to use its popularity to expand into the West Bank. You claim to be knowledgeable about Palestinian issues but can't acknowledge this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 minute ago, P.K. said: You're a joke! I don't think it has any bearing at all compared to Iran! According to you the blame for terrorists and their brutal attacks is all Israel's fault for existing... I guess it makes sense to you. However... No, I didn't say that either. Terrorism is never justified, and the blame lies almost wholly with those who carried it out. But as previously mentioned, it's important to understand how it came about in order to prevent it happening. You seem to think doing more of the same is the answer. I contend that doing the same will lead to the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Has Hamas and the PLO before it sown terrorism into the Palestinian mainstream? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Just now, Chinahand said: Voting isn't the issue is it. It is supporting an organisation with a political philosophy that is genocidal to Jews, which goes out and deliberately massacres them. Hamas IS in the political mainstream of Palestinian politics and was seeking to use its popularity to expand into the West Bank. You claim to be knowledgeable about Palestinian issues but can't acknowledge this? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders Is this genocidal? I don't think I've failed to acknowledge that Hamas is a mainstream political party, I just don't like the implication that that means the majority support them (no elections in 16 years and they only got in on a plurality then..) or that that means average Palestinians support terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Chinahand said: Has Hamas and the PLO before it sown terrorism into the Palestinian mainstream? Not sure what "sown terrorism into the Palestinian mainstream" actually means, but Hamas have clearly committed acts of terrorism. As did the PLO, though under Arrafat they denounced terrorism and the PLF became the more extreme element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Chinahand said: You are blind to the sowing of evil and Palestinian relishing of it. Listen to the phone calls boasting of killing Jews and bodycam footage of their massacres. They knew what they were doing wanted it recorded and wanted to boast of their evil. This was done by Palestinians. Do not say this evil was not sown by deliberate choices made by a major and popular force in Palestinian politics. The sheer brutality of the assault, filmed and loaded on social media, imho was designed to make the IDF pile into Gaza and straight into the killing grounds prepped by Hamas. Fortunately good sense prevailed over hot blood. After Trump the US president has a duty not to look stupid. The fact that Biden was confident in who bombed the hospital very soon after the event is an indication of just how good the US intelligence gathering capabilities actually are. The continuous bombardment is almost certainly driven by US intelligence. Most of it probably by SigInt. The idea that it's indiscriminate is nonsense. Unfortunately, as I have explained several times, Hamas are using human shields so not only Islamic Resistance vermin are copping it. But unfortunately there's no other way. I asked @HeliX enough times for an alternative but he couldn't come up with one. I should think the assault will not go in until the targets stop revealing themselves... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: The idea that it's indiscriminate is nonsense. You have to be pretty readily drinking the Israeli kool-aid to think this is targeted: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/25/middleeast/satellite-images-gaza-destruction/index.html Next you'll be claiming that cutting off food, water, power and medicine to 2million people is targeted. Quote Unfortunately, as I have explained several times, Hamas are using human shields so not only Islamic Resistance vermin are copping it. But unfortunately there's no other way. I asked @HeliX enough times for an alternative but he couldn't come up with one. I gave you the alternative every time you asked. You just don't like it. Quote I should think the assault will not go in until the targets stop revealing themselves... Given how many Israeli ministers have claimed there are "no civilians" and that they're at war with "Gaza", that'll be when they've killed everyone then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 30 minutes ago, HeliX said: I gave you the alternative every time you asked. You just don't like it. The task was wiping out the Islamic Resistance Fighters and removing the Hamas administration without civilian casualties. Fail... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Manchester arena bomber. Should we have carpet bombed Didsbury instead of singing 'Don't look back in anger?'. Many of the pseudointellectuals are putting forward a playground argument based on "well, they started it". The human shield argument is just as ridiculous. If I thought I was God (or his chosen people) could I decide to kill a confrontational drunk when I'm out tomorrow? Could I decide to not only kill him, but kill a woman that is in the way? I'm only defending myself after all. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailless Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 4 hours ago, P.K. said: So there were no celebrations in Gaza on hearing of the Jews being slaughtered by Hamas? You know what, I think there were lots of celebrations by "normal" Palestinians... You mean like Zionists celebrating the twin towers collapse? Netanyahu saying Israel benefited from that? Hamas would not be a factor in Gaza if it were not for Netanyahu advocating for them a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 If this and Ukraine prove anything once and for all, it's that when the going gets nasty, "rules of war" and "laws of war" are an utter fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 33 minutes ago, woolley said: If this and Ukraine prove anything once and for all, it's that when the going gets nasty, "rules of war" and "laws of war" are an utter fantasy. Laws only exist if enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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