P.K. Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Do you really believe that any of the hostages are still alive? Between Hamas and the IDF I would imagine most have been executed, died of injuries or killed by the IDF as casualties of their campaign. I think that this has been one of the sticking points with any ceasefire. The Israeli Government have demanded that Hamas hand over live hostages and quite simply Hamas cannot comply with that requirement. The major sticking point of any ceasefire is the Hamas demand it should be permanent.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: The major sticking point of any ceasefire is the Hamas demand it should be permanent.... You're a fucking idiot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, P.K. said: The major sticking point of any ceasefire is the Hamas demand it should be permanent.... So the Israeli Government are against peace? (Yes, I know its not that simple). You did not answer my question though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: So the Israeli Government are against peace? (Yes, I know its not that simple). You did not answer my question though. The Israeli government is not against peace. That's ridiculous. They are against giving anyone the idea that Hamas could attack Israel, brutally murder over a thousand Israeli citizens, take several hundred hostage - and then force a ceasefire i.e. get away with it... I suppose you mean do I think any hostages are still alive? With no evidence to say they have all perished then you have to hope and act as if there are still some to save. The IDF have no other option. Strange thing to ask. Why so...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, P.K. said: i.e. get away with it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 7 hours ago, P.K. said: The Israeli government is not against peace. That's ridiculous. They are against giving anyone the idea that Hamas could attack Israel, brutally murder over a thousand Israeli citizens, take several hundred hostage - and then force a ceasefire i.e. get away with it... I think the Israeli Government have well and truly made that point. The latest military action in Rafah has left the Israeli Government being criticised by many of its allies. That rather suggests that these other nations now also think the Israeli Government have made their point. 7 hours ago, P.K. said: I suppose you mean do I think any hostages are still alive? With no evidence to say they have all perished then you have to hope and act as if there are still some to save. The IDF have no other option. Strange thing to ask. Why so...? You suppose? I directly asked you that question. Why? The Israeli Government said at the start that they were targeting action in Gaza to recover the hostages. Since then we have heard from the hostages that were released that several of the remaining hostages were wounded and not receiving effective treatment, the IDF shot Israeli nationals who were waving white flags and speaking Hebrew, and most of Gaza has been flattened. There have also been requests from the families of the hostages to stop the military action in Gaza. I ask the question because it seems that the Israeli Government gave up any rescue attempts long ago in favour of trying to wipe out Hamas. As a result they probably condemned any remaining hostages to death one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 15 hours ago, P.K. said: You can only ask a "simple" question because you clearly don't understand the reality of the situation. Israel remains the "occupying power" of the Gaza strip according to the UN. Even though the enclave was created by the Arab League. Before the 1948 attempt to destroy Israel and drive the survivors into the sea the population was about 80k. On the Arab League (failed) invasion refugees fled the fighting to Gaza and swelled the numbers to some 300k stateless people. They stayed stateless because Egypt, the occupying power, wouldn't give them naturalisation like the other Arab League states didn't with their Palestinian refugees. They have now reached 2m plus with very high unemployment, insufficient natural resources to sustain them hence many live on handouts and no foreseeable future. A road to nowhere. Israel however became the "occupying power" after the accord with Egypt. D- you failed to meet the brief of the question and decided to use word salad to deflect from making a definitive stance (how very politician and exactly the way I knew you would answer). Try again (and remember the brief): Simple question which requires only a simple answer: Do you (P.K.) honestly believe that the IDF and the Israeli government will vacate Gaza after they have achieved their objectives? (Yes/No) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 41 minutes ago, RecklessAbandon said: D- you failed to meet the brief of the question and decided to use word salad to deflect from making a definitive stance (how very politician and exactly the way I knew you would answer). Try again (and remember the brief): Simple question which requires only a simple answer: Do you (P.K.) honestly believe that the IDF and the Israeli government will vacate Gaza after they have achieved their objectives? (Yes/No) You couldn't know I would answer like that because it's clear you do not understand any of the nuances of the area. I gave you the answer - according to the UN Israel is the occupying power of Gaza. According to the UN this means Israel is responsible for "public order and safety" amongst other things in Gaza. Only a complete and utter idiot (RecklessAbandon) would think that they can do that without a presence. Now like the rest of the region Israel would much rather have nothing whatever to do with stateless Palestinians and Gaza in particular. They have already stated as much the last time they withdrew their military presence and settlers in 2005. But eventually someone has to re-build Gaza. Personally I would give the whole sorry mess over to the Arab League. They created Gaza and all the other camps full of stateless people so they can fix it. But, of course, they won't. It suits their extreme anti-semitic agenda to keep the hatred festering away in their camps and Gaza to remind other arabs of their obligations to the never ending cause... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: I ask the question because it seems that the Israeli Government gave up any rescue attempts long ago in favour of trying to wipe out Hamas. As a result they probably condemned any remaining hostages to death one way or another. Come off it. It's not like they have made a secret of the fact that they have tasked the IDF with the destruction of Hamas. Put simply the more they degrade Hamas the further out they have pushed the next possible assault. As the "Iron Dome" system was overwhelmed I would hope they would now include the classic "counter battery" response. The enemy fire rockets, your radars immediately pick them up, calculate where the launchers are and send a counter strike on it's way before the enemy rockets can hit the ground. Or Iron Dome in this case. Should make those launching the rockets at Israel highly popular not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 11 minutes ago, P.K. said: You couldn't know I would answer like that because it's clear you do not understand any of the nuances of the area. Not only did I know you would answer like that, I also knew you would double down with a second non-answer. Just admit that the IDF and the Israeli government is using the attack as a pretence for a land grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: Come off it. It's not like they have made a secret of the fact that they have tasked the IDF with the destruction of Hamas. But why now and the way they are pursuing that goal? They could have done this (according to them) at any time, so why now? Is it because they can use the attack as a carte blanche to carry out one of the most blatant land grabs? It is almost as paper thin as Putin's "security operation". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Just now, RecklessAbandon said: Not only did I know you would answer like that, I also knew you would double down with a second non-answer. Just admit that the IDF and the Israeli government is using the attack as a pretence for a land grab. I haven't the faintest idea what's going on in Netanyahu's head and neither do you. Mind you, I suspect he doesn't either! I guess we'll find out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, RecklessAbandon said: But why now and the way they are pursuing that goal? Thick or what? They had to respond to the assault because not to would just invite another. How many times do you need to be told...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, P.K. said: I haven't the faintest idea what's going on in Netanyahu's head and neither do you. Mind you, I suspect he doesn't either! I guess we'll find out... So when you can't word salad your way out of a position, you triple down with a "I dunno, guess we'll find out". Paper thin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Just now, RecklessAbandon said: So when you can't word salad your way out of a position, you triple down with a "I dunno, guess we'll find out". Paper thin. More nonsense. What position is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.