woolley Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I am surprised at you being on the equality platform, Spook. It is a fact of life that people are not born equal in all kinds of ways. We have to play the hand we are dealt for as long as our particular game may last. Of course, society has to do its best for everyone within reason, but equality legislation is far too prescriptive and leads to demands that facilities must be provided whatever the cost for everyone to do everything, which is unrealistic and raises false expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 ...demands that facilities must be provided whatever the cost for everyone to do everything, which is unrealistic and raises false expectations. This is actually the problem on the Isle of Man because we have Members of the Keys who believe this to be the case. I was talking to an MHK who said that the Disability Discrimination Act was "bloody stupid, we'd have to tear down Castle Rushen and rebuild it to make it wheelchair accessible". But the DDA simply states that the provider makes "reasonable adjustments". What is "reasonable" takes in to account the cost/benefit & financial position of the owner/provider etc. Tearing down an historic castle is quite clearly 'not reasonable'. It is sad & worrying that our government have sat on this piece of legislation for nine years because they believe this to be the case. Although one could question the intelligence of some of the members for believing it in the first place? As a 'real' example. Shortly after I returned to the Island following ten weeks in rehab after becoming disabled, a group of friends & I went out for a few beers. We went in to Carnival. Not a pub I would previously have drank in, we chose it because it had level access for me in the wheelchair. It does not have an accessible toilet. By my reckoning, when the DDA was 'enacted' (but not implemented) on the Isle of Man, this bar was called Strand 58. It then had a refurbishment to become Rendezvous. Later, it was done out once more to become Carnival. As such, a brewery owned pub has had two 'upgrades' since the Act was passed but still does not have a wheelchair accessible toilet. Is a toilet in a pub a 'reasonable' expectation? Could a brewery 'reasonably' be expected to fit one during one of their two overhauls? However, just around the corner is Jaks bar. It has also had a massive refurb in this time frame and it also does not have a wheelchair accessible toilet. But this is 'reasonable' as a wheelchair user can't get in there in the first place due to the steps at the front. A ramp would need to start on the tram lines to get a wheelchair safely inside. Therefore provision of a ramp is not a 'reasonable adaptation' and as such a wheelchair accessible toilet is not required. Since that first night out, I've never returned to that bar. Anyone who knows me, knows that once alcohol is added, I require frequent trips to the toilet, so a bar without a lav is a place to be avoided. More importantly, the friends I was drinking with that night have never returned either. By not providing access to 'reasonable adaptations', businesses are excluding a large number of potential customers. The experience in the UK was that most businesses that invested in ensuring that disabled people could use their premises, actually paid for the adaptations through increased custom. Many didn't even realise that they were missing out on customers. On the Isle of Man, Next have excellent changing facilities for wheelchair users and wide enough spaces around the racks. Marks & Spencer use the accessible changing room for storage and their racks are so close together that a wheelchair user struggles to manoeuvre. Guess where I shop for clothing? I know of a situation at Christmas where a sight impaired gentleman was visiting the Isle from Yorkshire. He went in to a cafe with his guide dog. He was refused service and told to leave because "your dog will have germs on its paws". Apart from the obvious embarrassment that the gentleman would have experienced and the lack of sale for the cafe owner, what other damage has this done? I used to get food from there regularly (it is close to one of my offices, so a few staff would do so). We've not been there since, so the business has lost customers and will continue to do so, simply because of a dreadful attitude that would be illegal if the DDA had received it's Day of Appointment Orders. But more importantly, will the gentleman return to the IoM? Almost certainly not. Did he leave with a negative perception of the IoM? Will he tell friends & family back in Yorkshire about his experiences? Will they visit in the future? The cafe's negative interactions with disabled people have not just lost them custom directly but the whole Island. Do they care? No, they probably don't even realise that they are losing customers. Because there is a limit to the available parking for wheelchair users in Douglas, it is already more difficult to come in to town than for non-disabled people. Putting up more barriers simply isolates people further and drives more of us to use on-line shopping or just not bother. The amount of money Douglas Council will now raise will be substantially less than the amount businesses are going to lose. If in exchange for removing the car park concession, an extra half dozen longer stay accessible parking spaces were created elsewhere, then fair enough. But that isn't going to happen. Every time I used the Bottleneck Car Park, I was spending money in the town's businesses. Now I'm less likely to bother. We both lose. Related to the subject, this video is worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Good post, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 i suppose there's the fallback of the disability discrimanation act oh, hang on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I am surprised at you being on the equality platform, Spook. It is a fact of life that people are not born equal in all kinds of ways. We have to play the hand we are dealt for as long as our particular game may last. Of course, society has to do its best for everyone within reason, but equality legislation is far too prescriptive and leads to demands that facilities must be provided whatever the cost for everyone to do everything, which is unrealistic and raises false expectations. Keith has illustrated brilliantly the way that the UK disability legislation deals with access to things when such access is simply impractical let alone impossible. There is absolutely no justification for delaying the equality legislation, and it should bring in the UK legislation with regards to disabilities word for word and not changed by one iota. Failing to do this adds yet another nasty smell to life on the Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EORH Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 This stupid decision by the Corpy will only load more cars onto the streets,there is a shortage of disabled spaces in the town now, so it will be a race for a space. Why didn't the Corpy ask the public first what they think, or is that too much to ask?, are the councillors now going to pay for their spaces as well?. This morning a car with a trailer was parked on the disabled space bottom of Market Hill, the warden came into Harrys Cafe to ask if anybody owned the car, I don't know if the owner was booked, but this is happening all the time. How about the Corpy checking with the tax office to see if the disabled person is on only the state pension, then give them people a disc of some colour to allow them to park free, with all these government cuts they have suffered, surely this fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeleaton Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I realise I don't actually live on the island (yet, see other thread) and surprisingly I agree with spook! My wife is wheelchair bound so most times we have no choice but to use our car. So to then be charged for parking is sometimes difficult to comprehend. None disabled drivers don't necessary have to use their car at least not for the same reasons so they are charged for that privilege. We only ever take our car out if we actually need it I.E. too far to walk, something needs to be carried / brought back etc.. Just my two cents.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Too often these decisions are made by people lacking in comprehension of the effects of their decisions. Maybe they should have a little look here? http://www.planetofsuccess.com/blog/2011/developing-empathy-walk-a-mile-in-someone%E2%80%99s-shoes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al-T Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 This stupid decision by the Corpy will only load more cars onto the streets,there is a shortage of disabled spaces in the town now, so it will be a race for a space. Why didn't the Corpy ask the public first what they think, or is that too much to ask?, are the councillors now going to pay for their spaces as well?. This morning a car with a trailer was parked on the disabled space bottom of Market Hill, the warden came into Harrys Cafe to ask if anybody owned the car, I don't know if the owner was booked, but this is happening all the time. How about the Corpy checking with the tax office to see if the disabled person is on only the state pension, then give them people a disc of some colour to allow them to park free, with all these government cuts they have suffered, surely this fair. Because they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 How about the Corpy checking with the tax office to see if the disabled person is on only the state pension, then give them people a disc of some colour to allow them to park free, with all these government cuts they have suffered, surely this fair.I can't see many people wanting to display a badge showing that they are poor...disabled or not. People have pride. Next the government will be handing out 'I'm vulnerable' car stickers and T-Shirts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Albert, some folk have pride and are reticent in playing 'the victim card' , others however seldom miss the chance , if it's to their advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 People have pride. How quaint. See Jeremy Kyle thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 People have pride. How quaint. See Jeremy Kyle thread. DECENT people have pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Dignity and modesty perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Border Terrier Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Looks like the Corpy have taken over the running of the car parks and increased the fees to match what they were charging in their other car parks - oh and added on a bit extra too. Shaws Brow £5.60 per day now. Chester Street £5.80 per day w.e.f. 1 June The bonus is that weekends and bank holidays will be free from 1 June. >Shaws Brow £5.60 per day now. My mate Chalky down at The Ferret and Longtail assures me... Only a whisper allegedly, but there's an investigation into misuse of Shaw's Brow car park - the lower deck with the entrance next to the old school/Weights and Measures Dept - apparently it's reserved for Council employees/Councillors and not accessible by the hoi polloi as it needs a electronic tag thingy to open the gate. However, being adacent to The Outback it's also being used after hours without payment. Only one specific vehicle/tag in the frame apparently and it's driven by the daughter of... TBT. Edit: spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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