manxman1980 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Written warnings usually come with explanations of how and why an improvement in performance and/or behaviour is expected. I would imagine that a final written warning will require specific wording and have to be approved by HR etc. before being sent. Maybe all the HR procedures had been followed in this case, but the quoted message doesn't give that impression as it is pretty short and blunt. I don't see a problem with communicating via text (when you have a good working relationship) but disciplinary procedures via text is not healthy. Mr S. you are correct that a formal written warning/final warning would follow a formal disciplinary hearing and would include a clear explanation of what the required improvement and/or behaviour is expected. I assume that people are referring the manager using the phrase "final warning" in the text message. I do not believe that this should be taken to mean a final warning in the sense of a disciplinary/capability process, however, it may have been interpreted that way by. It is more likely a poor choice of phrase which was meant to indicate that the employee should not continue with their planned course of action otherwise a formal process would be initiated. If you like I believe it was a final informal warning. As I indicated before that text message was at best ill advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Previous numbers have no impact on likely next numbers. If you want a statisticians response the answer is to pick unpopular numbers so that in the event you do win you don't share it with as many people. Off topic... I do find it interesting that the Lotto organisers seem to perpetuate the myth that the numbers drawn in previous weeks do have an effect. How many times do they say "No XX, previously drawn X number of times" or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Written warnings usually come with explanations of how and why an improvement in performance and/or behaviour is expected. I would imagine that a final written warning will require specific wording and have to be approved by HR etc. before being sent. Maybe all the HR procedures had been followed in this case, but the quoted message doesn't give that impression as it is pretty short and blunt. I don't see a problem with communicating via text (when you have a good working relationship) but disciplinary procedures via text is not healthy. Mr S. you are correct that a formal written warning/final warning would follow a formal disciplinary hearing and would include a clear explanation of what the required improvement and/or behaviour is expected. I assume that people are referring the manager using the phrase "final warning" in the text message. I do not believe that this should be taken to mean a final warning in the sense of a disciplinary/capability process, however, it may have been interpreted that way by. It is more likely a poor choice of phrase which was meant to indicate that the employee should not continue with their planned course of action otherwise a formal process would be initiated. If you like I believe it was a final informal warning. As I indicated before that text message was at best ill advised. That was how I read it - also at the time of writing the text a formal warning or disciplinary proceedings hadn't been initiated? It's tough to look back at things without bias or inference when events have since occurred to colour the view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Previous numbers have no impact on likely next numbers. If you want a statisticians response the answer is to pick unpopular numbers so that in the event you do win you don't share it with as many people. Off topic... I do find it interesting that the Lotto organisers seem to perpetuate the myth that the numbers drawn in previous weeks do have an effect. How many times do they say "No XX, previously drawn X number of times" or something similar. That's given me an idea, I'm going to pick my favourite MF posters and use their MF numbers for one line and my least favourite posters for the other line, this is getting expensive, I might just save my £2 ETA - my derailing of the thread is obvious and intentional. How would you feel if you were her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Previous numbers have no impact on likely next numbers. If you want a statisticians response the answer is to pick unpopular numbers so that in the event you do win you don't share it with as many people. Off topic... I do find it interesting that the Lotto organisers seem to perpetuate the myth that the numbers drawn in previous weeks do have an effect. How many times do they say "No XX, previously drawn X number of times" or something similar. That's given me an idea, I'm going to pick my favourite MF posters and use their MF numbers for one line and my least favourite posters for the other line, this is getting expensive, I might just save my £2 ETA - my derailing of the thread is obvious and intentional. How would you feel if you were her? I won't ask which line I'm on. Is how she feels particularly relevant to the situation ongoing situation? I don't think it should influence people's judgement of the facts. I can't really comprehend why she went into work after being told not to with the words "final warning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 ETA - my derailing of the thread is obvious and intentional. How would you feel if you were her? The situation itself must be a stressful time However, the comments on this forum and in general public are due to her going to the paper and being on the front page? That is a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 You're not a woman, you've never had cervical cancer and maybe you've never had a hysterectomy either, these are big deals. You're not on any line, totally indifferent Rhumsaa - people (mostly women) cry out for help, hormones bro, hormones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Rhumsaa - people (mostly women) cry out for help, hormones bro, hormones. Would you say that makes them less employable? Mostly tongue in cheek. But I don't think it's a good road to go down to dismiss bad decisions under the umbrella of "She's a woman and has just had a horrible health problem and surgery". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 You're not a woman, you've never had cervical cancer and maybe you've never had a hysterectomy either, these are big deals. You're not on any line, totally indifferent Rhumsaa - people (mostly women) cry out for help, hormones bro, hormones. Someone was discussing this issue (I assume) in broad terms on the Manx Voices Informed Choices Facebook group prior to Christmas I would suggest that there are a number of more suitable avenues to reach out for help before the front page of the paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bees Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 They're very relevant points that should be taken in account. Men are just as susceptible to life's curve balls, but they seem to hold it together a bit better (until they top themselves ofc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
censorship Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hillshepherd, FFS man, how can you comment on her financial position? Thats a horrible thing to say (even if its true) & it's none of yours (or anybody else's) business. Yeah, poor woman having her privacy invaded like that. She's gone out of her way not to draw public attention to her situation and in piles Hillshepherd like this...oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 How would you feel if you were her? I am sure it is a very stressful time for her and I have had family members with cancer so I understand the pressure that she must be under. Given how stressful the situation is I am surprised that she has agreed/chosen to speak to the press but that is her decision. I am not looking to criticise her personally or make any judgement on the merits of her or her employers respective cases. I am merely aiming to provide a professional interpretation of the information made available in the article. That interpretation was to conclude that the headline was inaccurate and according to the quotations provided the meeting that she has been invited to relates to an alleged breach of the implied term of mutual trust and confidence. That has nothing to do with an employees health and generally relates to some form of conduct. I know that she herself did not write the article and it is possible that she herself may be unhappy with the content and headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 i get the impression that though this person was deemed fit for light duties and a phased return to duty,she wanted the overtime option and enhanced pay to be included in this agreement,to me it looks like she has run up credit/bank debt and is looking for the manx tax payer to bail her out. She'll be disappointed then. Manx Tax Payer is only likely to troll her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hillshepherd, FFS man, how can you comment on her financial position? Thats a horrible thing to say (even if its true) & it's none of yours (or anybody else's) business. Yeah, poor woman having her privacy invaded like that. She's gone out of her way not to draw public attention to her situation and in piles Hillshepherd like this...oh Erm, did you read his post? It wasn't about her situation. It was about something he imagined about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 This additional stress is certainly not a good thing for this lady, in fact it may be downright harmful. Her full situation is unknown to us but one thing seems clear. She's in a hell of a place. With this publicity plus one thing and another going so badly in her life, plus the terror that cancer can bring, she seems to need help to cope. The previous security of her health and her work - two of the major things in life - have been whipped from beneath her feet. That has to be seriously destabling. I hope that she gets some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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